Kratom Kratom + diazepam?

[mauve]

Anyone tried kratom and diazepam combo before?

I'm a little confused by the effects of kratom it's a stim at low doses, but a sedative at high doses?

Would this combo be dangerous?

 

[Jabberwocky]

It's not dangerous, and they do go together nicely.

Kratom effects can vary by strain and dose.

 

[Slayer0344]

Is Kratom weaker than bupe ?

 

[negrogesic]

Is Kratom weaker than bupe ?

Yes, considerably

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

Is Kratom weaker than bupe ?

There is nothing definitive quantifying this. They are both partial MOR agonists so opioid-wise they are likely similar in strength but kratom has numerous MOAs including D1,2, 5HT, and adrenergic affinity that bupe does not.

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

Anyone tried kratom and diazepam combo before?

I'm a little confused by the effects of kratom it's a stim at low doses, but a sedative at high doses?

Would this combo be dangerous?

Kratom effects are caused by numerous alkaloids. Its strongest affinity is at the mu making it an opioid and resulting in pain relief, euphoria, constipation, and histamine induction. But kratom has other effects too by way of 5HT, D1 and 2, and adrenergic affinity. This is how it can be a light stimulant but also a light sedative. Its also very dose-dependent and subjuective to the user. "Strains" are not as responsible for varied effects as folks are taught (by vendors trying to sell more kratom). Mostly because there are not botanical strains. There are a few studies to debunk this myth.

Seasonal and Geographic Variation in Alkaloid Content of Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa (Korth.) Havil.) from Thailand

The objective of this study was to obtain data on the distribution of alkaloids in kratom plants grown in Thailand. Two collections were performed, covering the southern, central, and northern regions of Thailand and different seasons. The contents of alkaloids, including mitragynine (MG)...

www.mdpi.com

Examining the Psychoactive Differences between Kratom Strains

Kratom (Mitragyna speciosa) is a Southeast Asian plant containing various alkaloids that induce pharmacological effects in humans. In Western countries, online vendors sell a variety of different kratom strains which are marketed to have distinct effect profiles. However, as of yet such...

www.mdpi.com

 

[Slayer0344]

D

There is nothing definitive quantifying this. They are both partial MOR agonists so opioid-wise they are likely similar in strength but kratom has numerous MOAs including D1,2, 5HT, and adrenergic affinity that bupe does not.

Can you explain to a pleb like me in laments terms

 

[CmonYouShouldKnowBetter]

D

Can you explain to a pleb like me in laments terms

The opioid effects are likely very similar in strength to buprenorphine because both drugs are partial mu opioid receptor agonists and have a ceiling effect. There are not any studies or science gauging the exact strength of kratom (or mitragynine) as far and how much opioid affinity there is beyond "partial". So all we have are personal experiences and you will find that those differ a lot (i think kratom is stronger but the another guy in the thread thinks bupe is).

Kratom is, however, stronger than bupe in other effects because bupe is not serotonergic, dopaminergic, or adrenergic while kratom is.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There is nothing definitive quantifying this.

anyone who has taken both bupe and kratom would tell you bupe is certainly stronger

bupe is definitely much more potent than any kratom alkaloid, even pure 7-OH or psuedoindoxyl

certain kratom alkaloids have very potent relative binding affinity, but none of them are super efficacious at effecting mu opioid receptors in the way that other potent opioids like bupe do.

drug "potency" can be described by several metrics, but by all means bupe is definitely more potent than kratom

binding affinity is not a direct correlation to potency in its effect

 

[Slayer0344]

Does Kratom suppress the CNS as much as bupe?

 

[Jabberwocky]

Does Kratom suppress the CNS as much as bupe?

no

kratom does not cause respiratory depression

in terms of opioids, it makes kratom alkaloids fairly unique, because almost every other opioid does

Although technically it does significantly depress the CNS, it does not effect breathing.

 

[mauve]

no

kratom does not cause respiratory depression

in terms of opioids, it makes kratom alkaloids fairly unique, because almost every other opioid does

Although technically it does significantly depress the CNS, it does not effect breathing.

Fascinating no respiratory depression so safe to take with other depressants

But what's the taste like? I've heard people have a hard time keeping it down

 

[Jabberwocky]

so safe to take with other depressants

generally, yeah.... it could possibly potentiate respiratory depression from other drugs, this is mostly unknown, but in general not something to worry about and probably nonissue

But what's the taste like? I've heard people have a hard time keeping it down

the plant tastes like... plant... earthy and bitter in some cases

it's pretty bad when mixed into water, I'd suggest eating it by itself or with solid food like yogurt or something

mixing it with water makes it taste horrendous, but by itself it's not so bad

 

[Slayer0344]

I have capsules I’m about to start taking for cold turkey bupe withdrawal . Dunno how many to start with so I’ll probably start with one or two.

 

[Slayer0344]

Wh

It's not dangerous, and they do go together nicely.

Kratom effects can vary by strain and dose.

What strain would you recommend for sub withdrawal?

I have red Bali, super green, super red, red maeng da

 

[Jabberwocky]

What strain would you recommend for sub withdrawal?

doesn't matter much

there are only 2 types of kratom, stimulating and less stimulating

white/green strains are going to be more stimulating

red and fermented red is less stimulating (red strains are often compared most closely to the traditional effects of opioids, but that doesn't necessarily make them better for withdrawal or any purpose)

yellow is just a combination of red/white, gold is a combination of red/green... but in reality ALL kratom you buy is a mix of the two, unless you buy the whitest white or reddest red... it kinda gets convoluted and misleading

both have similar amounts of opioid power, white/green will just give you more mental euphoria, but also causes more side effects

I'd recommend a combination of both, tbh

the key is finding good quality kratom of any color, because there is a lot of bad low quality shit going around these days

 

[RxVeritas]

I've tried kratom with most benzos, as I have a history of being prescribed valium, xanax, ativan and finally settling on 6mg/day of klonopin, and that went on for five or six years; I first got into kratom (ground leaf) during this time and I always found that it went well with all of the above, although I have moderate to severe GAD and therefore an extremely high natural tolerancde to benzos. I have also taken temazepam and triazolam, which I found to actually have some recrational value to me by themsevles (which is something that none of the above drugs really give me, even at what most people would consider very high doses.
Point being that I definitely only got positive effects when combining dried leaf and benzos, but I have a monster benzo tolerance.

Currently am on 2mg xanax ER and 1mg xanax IR along with 2400mg gabapentin (as well as cymbalta and mirtazapine) which reduces my anxiety to the point where I can function at a decent job (a music store, not like a gas station lol) without always feeling impending doom, although I do have medical cannabis for my chronic lower back pain and I do use it frequently as an anxiolytic, as it definitely synergizes with benzos for me, as well as making my back pain tolerable.

These days the only kratom I take is OPMS Black capsules, which are the only product I've been able to find (at least in person) with a significantly higher amount of 7-Hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) than normal.

Each OPMS Black capsule is claimed to contain <7mg 7-OH, vs the <0.2mg in each OPMS Gold capsule. That's 35 times more 7-Hydroxymitragynine.

I'm not up on the latest literature, because I'm lazy, but I know that mitragynine is a partial opioid agonist, and when I take the gold it feels like it. The black, however, at the right dose absolutely feels like a full agonist, with a longer duration (6-8 hours, dose dependent) than I've ever gotten from any amount of dried leaf.

I bring this up because there have been times when I've taken OPMS Black capsules (5-6) alongside higher than "therapuetic" doses of gabapentin, xanax, and occasionally some lyrica in the mix, from which I can acheive a somewhat light but pleasant nod (although nausea is often a fairly brief issue at this point), and I've definitely experienced some light respiratory despression that I know I wouldn't have had without the kratom (I've taken the same regimen, minus the kratom, many a time), so

From a harm reduction persepctive;

Everybody is different, but most people I know seem to find the combination enjoyable if they already enjoy kratom and benzos seperately. As always, cannabis is your best friend if you get nauseous.

While I believe it's possible that 7-OH can cause repiratory despression at high doses, I think as long as you're using the benzos "responsibly" and not eating them like pez, as well as taking extreme doses of kratom, as long as you leave out alcohol you don't really need to worry about falling asleep and never waking up.

Enjoy, use responsibly, and remember:

You can always take more. You can never "take less".

 

[Jabberwocky]

These days the only kratom I take is OPMS Black capsules, which are the only product I've been able to find (at least in person) with a significantly higher amount of 7-Hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) than normal.

Each OPMS Black capsule is claimed to contain <7mg 7-OH, vs the <0.2mg in each OPMS Gold capsule. That's 35 times more 7-Hydroxymitragynine.

I'm not up on the latest literature, because I'm lazy, but I know that mitragynine is a partial opioid agonist, and when I take the gold it feels like it. The black, however, at the right dose absolutely feels like a full agonist, with a longer duration (6-8 hours, dose dependent) than I've ever gotten from any amount of dried leaf.

I bring this up because there have been times when I've taken OPMS Black capsules (5-6) alongside higher than "therapuetic" doses of gabapentin, xanax, and occasionally some lyrica in the mix, from which I can acheive a somewhat light but pleasant nod (although nausea is often a fairly brief issue at this point), and I've definitely experienced some light respiratory despression that I know I wouldn't have had without the kratom (I've taken the same regimen, minus the kratom, many a time), so

There are pure 7-OH pills going around now. They are... ok? Interesting? I went through 100 of them or so. I made a whole thread about them. They are strong, much closer to a real opioid, but still not quite that. They also kinda suck by themselves, really needs mitragynine for a full experience. 7-OH by itself feels closer to a hypnotic sleeping pill with opioid properties on the side. Very powerful muscle relaxant. Short duration about 4 hr.

But it made me realize there is not nearly as much 7-OH in OPMS black as they claim. I know what 7mg of 7-OH feels like. There is maybe 2mg in OPMS black shots/pills.

but yeah, benzos really bring out the nod in kratom significantly

quite an enjoyable high together

 

[RxVeritas]

There are pure 7-OH pills going around now. They are... ok? Interesting? I went through 100 of them or so. I made a whole thread about them. They are strong, much closer to a real opioid, but still not quite that. They also kinda suck by themselves, really needs mitragynine for a full experience. 7-OH by itself feels closer to a hypnotic sleeping pill with opioid properties on the side. Very powerful muscle relaxant. Short duration about 4 hr.

But it made me realize there is not nearly as much 7-OH in OPMS black as they claim. I know what 7mg of 7-OH feels like. There is maybe 2mg in OPMS black shots/pills.

but yeah, benzos really bring out the nod in kratom significantly

quite an enjoyable high together

I've read a little about the effects of pure 7-OH, as it seems like the entourage effect is very significant with kratom. It wouldn't surprise me if in it's pure form it was about as fun as Marinol.

I don't doubt that the amounts stated on the packaging are clearly unreliable. It's kind of impossible to know, but I really wonder how much the mitragynine, pseudoindoxyl, and all the other alkaloids contribute to the entourage effect in the case of the OPMS black, but yeah,

Benzos definitely potentiates the nod, and I appreciate that.

 

[mauve]

I've tried kratom with most benzos, as I have a history of being prescribed valium, xanax, ativan and finally settling on 6mg/day of klonopin, and that went on for five or six years; I first got into kratom (ground leaf) during this time and I always found that it went well with all of the above, although I have moderate to severe GAD and therefore an extremely high natural tolerancde to benzos. I have also taken temazepam and triazolam, which I found to actually have some recrational value to me by themsevles (which is something that none of the above drugs really give me, even at what most people would consider very high doses.
Point being that I definitely only got positive effects when combining dried leaf and benzos, but I have a monster benzo tolerance.

Currently am on 2mg xanax ER and 1mg xanax IR along with 2400mg gabapentin (as well as cymbalta and mirtazapine) which reduces my anxiety to the point where I can function at a decent job (a music store, not like a gas station lol) without always feeling impending doom, although I do have medical cannabis for my chronic lower back pain and I do use it frequently as an anxiolytic, as it definitely synergizes with benzos for me, as well as making my back pain tolerable.

These days the only kratom I take is OPMS Black capsules, which are the only product I've been able to find (at least in person) with a significantly higher amount of 7-Hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) than normal.

Each OPMS Black capsule is claimed to contain <7mg 7-OH, vs the <0.2mg in each OPMS Gold capsule. That's 35 times more 7-Hydroxymitragynine.

I'm not up on the latest literature, because I'm lazy, but I know that mitragynine is a partial opioid agonist, and when I take the gold it feels like it. The black, however, at the right dose absolutely feels like a full agonist, with a longer duration (6-8 hours, dose dependent) than I've ever gotten from any amount of dried leaf.

I bring this up because there have been times when I've taken OPMS Black capsules (5-6) alongside higher than "therapuetic" doses of gabapentin, xanax, and occasionally some lyrica in the mix, from which I can acheive a somewhat light but pleasant nod (although nausea is often a fairly brief issue at this point), and I've definitely experienced some light respiratory despression that I know I wouldn't have had without the kratom (I've taken the same regimen, minus the kratom, many a time), so

From a harm reduction persepctive;

Everybody is different, but most people I know seem to find the combination enjoyable if they already enjoy kratom and benzos seperately. As always, cannabis is your best friend if you get nauseous.

While I believe it's possible that 7-OH can cause repiratory despression at high doses, I think as long as you're using the benzos "responsibly" and not eating them like pez, as well as taking extreme doses of kratom, as long as you leave out alcohol you don't really need to worry about falling asleep and never waking up.

Enjoy, use responsibly, and remember:

You can always take more. You can never "take less".

I can relate to the impending catastrophic doom anxiety, I wish I could say something that would help but anxiety has a way to attach itself to something else.

I'm currently in a Benzo taper I've gone from 60mg diazepam to 40mg and currently holding.

I feel like I need a little pick me up, after being sedated for so long. I can handle coffee no problem which is nice. I guess I'm looking for a substance that's not overly stimulating, but quite euphoric it's been years since I felt serotonin