• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Misc Kratom + 5-htp = Dysphoria?

Seattle_Stranger

Seattle_Stranger

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
1,903
Location
Seattle, WA
Small preface: I use kratom quite often, about 3 times a week at ~10g each time. Aside from weed, I don't use anything else habitually. I also don't normally experience much withdrawal when I don't have kratom. I also have recently (within the last two months) stopped taking my daily dose of 200mg lamotrigine. I take a B-complex, D and E vitamins daily.



Yesterday my order of kratom came in the mail with a 5g sample of the supposedly stronger maeng da kratom. I took my normal vitamins, along with 600mg cemetidine (for potentiation of the kratom, I feel like it kinda works, also helps with nausea), and 100mg 5-htp.

Then about an hour later, I went about my routine for kratom dosing:
- I eat something absorbent, this time it's a sausage mcmuffin from McD's. If I don't, I will get insanely nauseous after drinking the kratom and puke it right back up.
- I empty out the 5g bag of maeng da kratom into a cup, then I add some OJ. I thoroughly mix it until the kratom is completely suspended in the juice.
- I pinch my nose, clench my teeth, and then gulp down the kratom with every ounce of effort not to think about it. This is insanely hard for me, but a good thing because it discourages re-dosing.
- I get it down, pass the bit of nausea that comes, and then wait. Ahh, here's where the euphoria starts simply because the hard part is over. :p

I'm pretty experienced with kratom by now, so I know what effects to look for, how long they usually take to get there, etc.. I am reading Bluelight when I read how taking an antacid with your kratom could prolong the effects. I took an antacid earlier in the day, so I figured what the hell, I'll take another. The expected effects begin about 15-20 minutes later, begin coming on but not as strong as I'd like, I figure because the antacid is slowing down the works., plus it's this new maeng da stuff so maybe it's not really that strong. I do still feel pretty good though, warmth, anxiety relief, mild euphoria, and stimulation. I smoke a bowl of weed at this point, just as I always do. I feel like a bowl just as the kratom is peaking rounds it all out so nicely...

About an hour into it though, it just stopped. The euphoria just disappeared and I actually started getting rushes of dysphoria! Almost like instant-withdrawal. I had no reason to feel anxious or depressed, it was a great Valentine's Day, I was currently cooking a BOMB ass meal for my beautiful girlfriend, yet I kept getting TERRIBLE depressive rushes. This never happens to me on kratom. Kratom usually turns me into the most bubbly, happy, euphoria, energetic, might-as-well-be-rolling kind of person. I felt like shit though....

These feelings kept coming in waves throughout the rest of the night, even after some realllly good :o time I still felt depressed. Today, I'm still having some slight depression but not as bad.

Here come the questions:

Could there have been a bad reaction between the 5-htp and kratom? I researched kratom and 5-htp on Google and saw some similar reports!! Some people mention minor serotonin syndrome.

I also took 600mg cemetidine, could that have possibly interacted with the 5htp?

I plan on taking MDMA on Saturday. Do I have any reason not to?


Thanks for the help!! :)
 
I wasn't aware that kratom had serotonigenic action, however, there is so little research into the action of the alkaloids in kratom that it would be entirely possible. I'm glad you posted this for that reason alone!

You should be fine with taking MDMA on Saturday, it sounds like you've got yourself into a good habit of loading up on vitamins and 5-HTP anyway, which will, as I'm sure you know, help your MDMA experience and soften the comedown.

I wish I could help you more with this man, I haven't taken 5-HTP in a very long time due a bad experience I had with it (serotonin syndrome). I do, however, enjoy kratom and I feel the same way you (usually) feel with it, happy, social, but not too intense.

There does need to be more research into kratom, I know it has stimulant action, but I always thought that was due to yohimbine-like alpha-2 adrenergic receptor action.

While yohimbine does (per the wiki article) have mild-to-moderate action at some 5-HT receptors, that doesn't mean that kratom does.
 
If I recall correctly, 5htp does virtually nothing when taken once. To have any noticable effect on serotonin or potentiation of serotonergic drugs you would have to take 5htp every day for a while to let it build up in your system.

With this in mind im not sure 5htp is the culprit here.
 
The first thing that stands out to me is that you had never tried the "maeng da" before. It is quite possible that it just has a different alkaloid profile than you are used to. It could be more than twice as strong as your usual so you took too much kratom which can result in primarily antagonistic action at the mu receptor and perhaps increased action at the kappa. This seems more appropriate for waves of disphoria than serotonin syndrome which I recall as being much more of a physical response.
 
^Do you have sources that show excessive kratom causing mu antagonism? I'd like to read more about that.
 
http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/cpb/52/8/916/_pdf
http://mitizane.ll.chiba-u.jp/metadb/up/assist1/Y2006-17.pdf

Look for corynantheidine in those articles. I'm afraid I've never seen any scientific article on my comments regarding high doses causing more antagonism. People are always busy isolating the alkaloids. Reports on people finding they get better effects on lower doses and don't experience any desired effects when overdosing and getting severe nausea does support this idea though and I've heard it thrown around enough for me to start repeating it ;)

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...a35f6ae3c46b94048c9128fda6511a2c&searchtype=a
Here's an article on mitragynine's opioid receptor profile, never mind all the other alkaloids in there.
 
I've had maeng da from this exact source before and I simply remember it as being slightly more potent than normal kratom, but still did it's job. It was weird, it felt like the kratom was there doing what it was supposed to all along, but would occasionally be outshined by a wave of dysphoria and depression, which after a few minutes would disappear and turn into euphoria again. Fucking strange....

The day after I took a normal 10g dose of regular plain powdered bali leaf, got quite high, minimal nausea, lasted long, actually had an appetite and left me with a lovely afterglow. Perfect kratom experience.

Well whaddaya think of that? :\

I took the 5-htp yesterday as the first dose in a week-long pre-load I planned for the roll. I decided to just go to normal this saturday.
 
I do not know much about 5-HTP usage or its effects when combined with Kratom. All attempts to find any information have yielded nothing concrete. I hope this is resolved, as I am curious about their interactions and wonder if it is safe to combine them, especially daily.

Good luck solving your problem and feeling better:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top