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Ketamine Liquid Vial and Long-Term Storage and if it can last a Decade or more before loosing Potency for it plus questions about Ketamine itself. :)

E

Echotango

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So I got a Bottle of Ketamine and I don't know which is better the Racemic kind I read is not as good but the difference I read from Users is like essentially No different if any difference at all the Racemic and another kind like S+ or S- Ketamine or something has one of these two kinds or a different two kinds of Racemic and another cause more of a Body High and other more of a Psychedelic Effect or some like that. I Read the Racemic Version seems to be more harsh on the Kidneys etc. and this is Pharmaceutical Veterinarian Grade Ketamine I acquire from someone who works at a Veterinarian place/Clinic whatever you Call them. The Friend of mine kindly without making Me pay Money for it that when it was Expired a Bottle of it when it gets thrown out in the Garbage She would notify Me so ya it's not a lot of Ketamine in the Vial although I got very low to zero Tolerance to Dissociatives not sure as I did over use DXM for a like a few Months with like Days and weeks in between uses before I Read the Tolerance to the "PLEASURE Effects are permanent." and I have not used it for over 2 Years now ever since I Read about that as I never used MDMA more than every 6 Months unless some awesome comes up like going to A Swimming park on MDMA or some but I would never do that without waiting a MINIMUM of one Week but preferably 3 Months or least 1 Month since I Read 80% of your Serotonin is Recovered after one Month.

Sorry for the big block of writing but the short question version is I need to know the best way to put Vial of Liquid Ketamine in Storage for Years such as do I put it in my Fridge or not put it in my Fridge usually the best u can do is put it in a Dark, Dry COOL place. I need to know how long it will last before Potency especially after the Expire Date has past. I got some Etizolam Tablets that say they Expire in 2 years after the Manufacturing Date it is the Brand Named Etizest MD (Mouth Dissolving) Tablets, is it that even long enough to loose 1% Potency or how long can I store tablets but mainly my Vial of Ketamine and if I dried it out would it last longer?
 
In the fridge in a brown paper bag or something would be best since the fridge light will degrade it. As far as I know, most properly stored drugs don’t really lose potency even over a long period of time. Sorry I couldn’t answer the rest of your questions!
 
tetert69 said:
In the fridge in a brown paper bag or something would be best since the fridge light will degrade it. As far as I know, most properly stored drugs don’t really lose potency even over a long period of time. Sorry I couldn’t answer the rest of your questions!
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Thank You for being at least ONE person who Replied to an important question since I was considering to just risk dying and using it before it possibly lost Potency as Dosing would of been hard if that happened. If someone else can give Me an opinion anyone specifically with more knowledge about Long-Term Liquid and or Dried out Liquid Vials of Veterinarian Grade Ketamine?
 
Re: Racemic vs S-isomer ketamine, the S-ketamine (aka "esketamine") is generally considered the eutomer, i.e. the isomer most of the (desirable) pharmacological activity resides in. Since R-ketamine ("arketamine") is only a very weak NMDA antagonist, esketamine can be assumed to be almost twice as active as a dissociative. In general, it should say on the bottle whether it is esketamine or the racemate. There is little we know about how exactly ketamine harms the kidneys; or if one isomer is more harmful than the other. The only "educated guess" we can make is that esketamine would be less harsh simply by virtue of requiring far less material for the same level of high.

Re: its shelf-life, you have to consider that any vial that has been opened at one point and does not have lots of preservatives in it has been exposed to bacterial contamination, in which case it might not be safe for injection indefinitely. However, even then I doubt bacteria are going to find ketamine a particularly "appetizing" substance, and probably wouldn't degrade it. It should be fine for oral or intranasal ingestion, though. If the vial has never been opened though, you might as well disregard the listed shelf-life.

In general, most chemicals that are stored in a cool, dry environment and protected from (UV-)light can last virtually forever. Granted, a solution in a vial isn't "dry", but I would still argue that ketamine is a pretty stable compound, seeing as how the synthesis specifically involves cooking the material at high temperatures, making use of ketamine's greater thermodynamic stability when compared to its immediate precursor.
 
Echotango said:
So I got a Bottle of Ketamine and I don't know which is better the Racemic kind I read is not as good but the difference I read from Users is like essentially No different if any difference at all the Racemic and another kind like S+ or S- Ketamine or something has one of these two kinds or a different two kinds of Racemic and another cause more of a Body High and other more of a Psychedelic Effect or some like that. I Read the Racemic Version seems to be more harsh on the Kidneys etc. and this is Pharmaceutical Veterinarian Grade Ketamine I acquire from someone who works at a Veterinarian place/Clinic whatever you Call them. The Friend of mine kindly without making Me pay Money for it that when it was Expired a Bottle of it when it gets thrown out in the Garbage She would notify Me so ya it's not a lot of Ketamine in the Vial although I got very low to zero Tolerance to Dissociatives not sure as I did over use DXM for a like a few Months with like Days and weeks in between uses before I Read the Tolerance to the "PLEASURE Effects are permanent." and I have not used it for over 2 Years now ever since I Read about that as I never used MDMA more than every 6 Months unless some awesome comes up like going to A Swimming park on MDMA or some but I would never do that without waiting a MINIMUM of one Week but preferably 3 Months or least 1 Month since I Read 80% of your Serotonin is Recovered after one Month.

Sorry for the big block of writing but the short question version is I need to know the best way to put Vial of Liquid Ketamine in Storage for Years such as do I put it in my Fridge or not put it in my Fridge usually the best u can do is put it in a Dark, Dry COOL place. I need to know how long it will last before Potency especially after the Expire Date has past. I got some Etizolam Tablets that say they Expire in 2 years after the Manufacturing Date it is the Brand Named Etizest MD (Mouth Dissolving) Tablets, is it that even long enough to loose 1% Potency or how long can I store tablets but mainly my Vial of Ketamine and if I dried it out would it last longer?
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You have more self control then me that's for sure
 
Hodor said:
Re: Racemic vs S-isomer ketamine, the S-ketamine (aka "esketamine") is generally considered the eutomer, i.e. the isomer most of the (desirable) pharmacological activity resides in. Since R-ketamine ("arketamine") is only a very weak NMDA antagonist, esketamine can be assumed to be almost twice as active as a dissociative. In general, it should say on the bottle whether it is esketamine or the racemate. There is little we know about how exactly ketamine harms the kidneys; or if one isomer is more harmful than the other. The only "educated guess" we can make is that esketamine would be less harsh simply by virtue of requiring far less material for the same level of high.

Re: its shelf-life, you have to consider that any vial that has been opened at one point and does not have lots of preservatives in it has been exposed to bacterial contamination, in which case it might not be safe for injection indefinitely. However, even then I doubt bacteria are going to find ketamine a particularly "appetizing" substance, and probably wouldn't degrade it. It should be fine for oral or intranasal ingestion, though. If the vial has never been opened though, you might as well disregard the listed shelf-life.

In general, most chemicals that are stored in a cool, dry environment and protected from (UV-)light can last virtually forever. Granted, a solution in a vial isn't "dry", but I would still argue that ketamine is a pretty stable compound, seeing as how the synthesis specifically involves cooking the material at high temperatures, making use of ketamine's greater thermodynamic stability when compared to its immediate precursor.
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+1
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Lol I got Vials that never been opened that is part of the problem I got more than one and is the delightful to hear I do Vial esketamine is better but one bottle is racemic from the Veterinary Clinic. I'm on Benzos and Opioid and need to start getting off the Benzos and would be unsafe to mix these two substances right now hence I'm asking about Storage. Does this mean the recommended Ketamine Doses for esketamine which is ironically easier to remember lol. Does this mean the type of Ketamine I have make it so I need way less high of a Dose than what the Dosage charts say since I REALLY don't want to K-Hole on my first try. the other stuff is weaker and after I open the Bottle I got more than one how long would dried stuff last as my girlfriend wants to try it once she weans off the Methadone.


That being said how long does an unopened Vial of esketamine last does the version of it really matter? I got a enough Vials that I will be regretting selling these but I guess the extra Money will be nice. Does one last longer than the other or something like that from what you explained there seems to be no difference. What Dose does this mean I need when i do finally use it and how long will it last if I dried it out as I read after Vials of Liquid Medication Expire it can than turn into some gnarly shit what do you think guys will it loose potency during Storage I am asking since the one from Veterinary Clinic is like 2 Months passed the Expire Date and I'm on a high enough Dose of Benzos it's not going to be QUICK AT ALL to get off them so ya only thing that would help determine Me would be some like this to Me least to make it through it thinking there is a possible prize at the end of all of the hellish experience. The other Bottles are literally only about a year one is a few Months less than a year before they Expire but like I said I don't know how long it takes for potency from my etizolam MD Pills which Expire in like January 2020 will last before they start loosing potency and if they do I don't know how much but Liquid Medication is a totally different thing?


Would it be possible to simply just dry out ALL the Ketamine and if I did that how much Potency loss would there be if any at all? I assume even this Route it might loose some Potency and does anyone even know anything other than racemic maybe be half as potent as esketamine? Since that just makes Me feel kind of dicey Dosing it considering I assume most Dosing Charts for Non-Tolerant Users is based of the Racemic kind considering the Fact you said esketamine is hard to get which explains A LOT!
 
It is highly unlikely that you or anyone else in this thread has ever come across esketamine unless they resolved it themselves or are Americans being treated for suicidal depression in the last couple months with the new esketamine nasal spray.
 
Got it on the D@rknet M@rket, err Em@il only S0urc3. I thought I got ripped off for the price I payed for it and it didn't come from my Country I know that much. Which I live in Canada, who knows until I use it maybe it is racemic idk... what I do know is that it's a very reputable V3nd0r with a huge satisfied amount of customers too. I been dealing with the person for a long time (years) and he doesn't have the new Nasal Spray things your talking about but said he could get them if I wanted it once there available for public prescription use or what ever they plan to do with them.

He said he doesn't have more of the ISO or whatever esketamine Vials only the one that I managed to get since I been asking for "Vials" specifically instead of the 88% mid-80% some Pure dried out Ketamine Powder/crystals not sure what it's like dried out I am assuming it was dried out from a Vial. I thought after learning prices was ridiculously way overpriced and that I got ripped off for this specific Vial. I REALLY DON'T LIKE SHARING EVEN THIS MUCH INFORMATION as it makes me paranoiD!! (Keyboard is busted right now)

That being said does it matter whether it is Racemic or esketamine since I don't think that would effect the Storage Shelf-Life of an unopened Bottle which is the question? If nobody knows or just nobody with the knowledge has come Online and checked this Sub-Forum as it doesn't get much traffic but "Other Drugs" Sub-Forum gets so much Traffic the moment you make a Post it gets lost in a crowd of them.
 
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You could of easily just said nobody else knows anything more than what has been said? Just saying it would of saved me some time and I don't know what the purpose of your questions were? Based upon what I read it is no good after the Expiration Date when it comes to S.Q. or I.M. use of the Ketamine Vial. That means I'm SOL and need to dry these bitches out correct?
 
Echotango said:
Got it on the D@rknet M@rket, err Em@il only S0urc3. I thought I got ripped off for the price I payed for it and it didn't come from my Country I know that much. Which I live in Canada, who knows until I use it maybe it is racemic idk... what I do know is that it's a very reputable V3nd0r with a huge satisfied amount of customers too. I been dealing with the person for a long time (years) and he doesn't have the new Nasal Spray things your talking about but said he could get them if I wanted it once there available for public prescription use or what ever they plan to do with them.

He said he doesn't have more of the ISO or whatever esketamine Vials only the one that I managed to get since I been asking for "Vials" specifically instead of the 88% mid-80% some Pure dried out Ketamine Powder/crystals not sure what it's like dried out I am assuming it was dried out from a Vial. I thought after learning prices was ridiculously way overpriced and that I got ripped off for this specific Vial. I REALLY DON'T LIKE SHARING EVEN THIS MUCH INFORMATION as it makes me paranoiD!! (Keyboard is busted right now)

That being said does it matter whether it is Racemic or esketamine since I don't think that would effect the Storage Shelf-Life of an unopened Bottle which is the question? If nobody knows or just nobody with the knowledge has come Online and checked this Sub-Forum as it doesn't get much traffic but "Other Drugs" Sub-Forum gets so much Traffic the moment you make a Post it gets lost in a crowd of them.
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Esketamine has been easy to find for me personally in Europe, I gather it's not as easy in USA and Canada.
The Esketamine available on the EU market is illegally manufactured for the black market either in China or India as I understand.
Veterinary Ketamine is always going to be Racemic AFAIK.
Esketamine is the one with the shorter duration of action, as apparently the R- Isomer slows down the elimination of the drug.
Esketamine in a vial for anaesthesia does exist but AFAIK is not as common as the racemic.
When dealing with the black market you have no way of knowing if it is legitimate pharma Ketamine that is inside of the vial as the price premium is worth going through the trouble of manufacturing counterfeits.
The contents of the vial will not deteriorate any faster if it is one or the other forms of Ketamine.
Finally I suggest that you do not inject the Ketamine at all.
Dry it and snort it or plug the liquid.
Don't eat it as a big part of it will be transformed in Norketamine during first pass if you do so.
Norketamine is an active drug but is less powerful and has a longer duration.
 
I've been awake all night sorry if there any typos/grammar errors and the Post does not make much sense.

That explains a lot lol thank you phobos for the informative Post. The other person said Esketamine would be roughly 2x Stronger Per Dosage than Racemic Ketamine if that's true should I be using half the Dosage as shown on the average Dosing Tables that are all over the Internet for Ketamine since the Dosing Guidelines don't exactly specify whether using Esketamine or regular Ketamine for the Dosing Recommendations, should I maybe make New Thread?

If I should make a New Thread should I make it in "Other Drugs" or here in "Neuroscience and Pharmacology"? about how much different the Dosing is for the Guidelines that are on Bluelight.org for Ketramine Dosing about whether it's based on racemic dosing I'm assuming and what the right Esketamine Dosing would be and how long does the Esketamine last compared to it?

I was hoping to maybe use it S.Q. or I.M. to make the Dosage required less high but if Esketamine is twice as strong as the Ketamine Dosing Guidelines than I think Snorting it would be fine or is it possible to just make it into a Nasal Spray Dosing like with Cocaine?

By the way based on everyone who made a helpful reply which unlike other Sub-Forums is everyone who Posted literally here... so it seems that this Sub-Forum has yielded Me the most intelligent/useful/helpful/available knowledge about the subjects/questions that I'm asking for information about.
 
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Based on my anecdotal experience I would say use 40% less not half.
After 90 minutes from dosing Esketamine I am mentally almost sober and it is ok to go around the house eat drink etc, but I wouldn't drive or handle a gun or hold a baby for another hour, your coordination is still not going to be 100%.
For Racemic I would say 2 hour and a half before getting up and 4 hours for more complicated and dangerous tasks.
You metabolism could dispose of the Ket faster or slower than mine, so this is only a guideline.
I would recommend not dosing for another 24 hours minimum after a K hole, with a week being more ideal to limit the buildup of tolerance and reduce the chances of developing psychological addiction.

The first time that you try Esketamine take 30 mg, for Racemic 50mg, this is snorted dosages.
You will still be able to talk and move and remember the experience, and after an hour or so you could take the same dose again if you feel like it and it should increase the effects compared to the first peak.
After a few days you could try again with a stronger dose, working your way up to a K-Hole.
Now, when you are close to a K-Hole dose there will be a point in which you can choose to close you eyes and go in the hole but a proper K-hole is when in 5-10 minutes from snorting you will be in the hole no matter what.
After you have found your K-Hole dose, I suggest you don't take small doses anymore as those are psychologically addictive.
 
Hi There

I have a question that has not been answered here, but the responses to other questions I've seen give me confidence that various folks may have an informed opinion that might help me. It's from a harm reduction angle.

Many years ago when Ketamine was freely available on the internet, I received some Vetased. It is the real thing. I moved away from using K and more or less forgot about it. The use by date was 2012. A few weeks ago I came across 2 partially full vials in a drawer. My plan was to decant and dry it out, ready for nasal insufflation. On draining the two vials I noticed that the one containing 1ml was brownish in colour, the other, with approx 2ml, was clear. I foolishly mixed the two together on the drying dish. The dried material is of course, brownish. I do not plan to inject or swallow, but to snort.

So here are my questions:

1. I presume the brown colour is due to degradation, either by chemical process or bacterial action (although I see from earlier posts that K is not particularly tasty to bacteria). Is it one or the other, or both?
2. If it is chemical degradation, could the breakdown product(s) be toxic/harmful if the K is taken nasally?
3. If the material is contaminated by bacteria, could it be toxic/harmful if taken nasally?
4. If bacterial contamination, are there ways to cleanse it?

I don't plan to purchase any K in the future as I'm really a psychedelics person, but would like to savour the remnants of what was quite good fun at the time :).

Many thanks in anticipation, E
 
Ketamine solutions are shipped with a preservative agent, usually benzalkonium, so they shouldn't grow bacteria. Also the pH is way too acidic.

A FDA monograph for ketamine solution says:
Color of solution may vary from colorless to very slightly yellowish and may darken upon prolonged exposure to light. This darkening does not affect potency. Do not use if precipitate appears.


So, all said, it should be fine to use. You could probably remove the color by treatment with some activated charcoal if you really wanted to.
 
Thanks Sekio. I was really just worried about a possible bad reaction to any toxin(s) that might have evolved either due to chemical breakdown or bacteria - colour is not an issue and there's only about 300mg anyway so hardly worth messing around with. I just thought it would be nice to re-visit the old K one last time :).

Mind you, it has been in the dark in a cupboard for over 10 years so the browning really shouldn't be due to the ".... prolonged exposure to light" that you reference above. Still, I feel confident now that I'm not going to end up in A&E.

Thanks again, E
 
sekio said:
Ketamine solutions are shipped with a preservative agent, usually benzalkonium, so they shouldn't grow bacteria. Also the pH is way too acidic.

A FDA monograph for ketamine solution says:
Color of solution may vary from colorless to very slightly yellowish and may darken upon prolonged exposure to light. This darkening does not affect potency. Do not use if precipitate appears.


So, all said, it should be fine to use. You could probably remove the color by treatment with some activated charcoal if you really wanted to.
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So does this mean I should dry them out if they turn brown or should I dry them out before the 10 year mark if I haven't used my vials?

Not sure exactly what this means at all. Thanx for the help everyone in trying to figure this out.
 
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