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Ketamine cut with sodium bicarbonate

tripkop

tripkop

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 7, 2010
Messages
9
Location
Belgium
Hi all

I have recently gotten my hands on some K that I know has been cut with sodium bicarb and is probably less than 50% pure. (I know for a fact that the cutting agent is sodium bicarbonate so identifying the cut is not the problem)

I know that for snorting purposes this isn't really a problem as it's a fairly benign cutting agent, I'll just have to snort more.

Problem is though, I have abandoned the snorting of ketamine a few months ago in favor of the IM (and sometimes IV) route of administration as I find the high a lot cleaner and enjoyable.

Now for my question: is it safe to inject this mixture of ketamine and sodium bicarbonate, IM as well as IV. (keep in mind that I have quite a tolerance to dissociatives so a 250mg IM shot of pure ketamine is probably what I'd use for a nice Khole session) So I'd be injecting the same amount of the sodium bicarb at the same time. Is this safe?

And if it's not, are there any ways to purify the ketamine so I can inject it IM and IV without worries?

Thanks in advance
Peace & Love
 
I don't know about the safety of injecting pure bicarbonate, but baking soda (which I guess is what it is) usually contains 'anti-caking' agents too. The ones I've seen are insoluble in water, so I definitely wouldn't want to be injecting that. Maybe with a micron filter...

A bigger problem is that when you add water, the ketamine will likely precipitate as the freebase, because of the bicarbonate, making the preparation of an injectable solution impossible. The only option I can see is to add water, then extract with naphtha or something, dry and concentrate to get pure ket base. Then make the salt again.
 
It's not baking soda, it's pure food grade sodium bicarbonate. Does that change anything?
 
I don't know, I guess they still use anti-caking agents. But the biggest problem is that it's going to freebase the ketamine as soon as you get it wet, think cooking crack. Ketamine freebase is insoluble in water so you won't be able to inject it.

It's possible that it will precipitate as a solid (ketamine freebase is solid at room temp), in which case you could just filter it, dry it and make the salt. Skipping the naphtha extraction will bring all the anti-caking agents through too though, so I'd definitely micron filter it if you do it like that. (You should probably micron filter it anyway, I don't know too much about injecting)
 
Bicarb is a bad cut all round. It makes snorting a bad plan for the same reason as injecting, freebase ketamine is messy stuff.

Usually anti-caking agents like calcium silicate etc are insoluble in naptha. You should just be able to do a naptha extraction, maybe add a little lye to be sure the pH gets up.

Don't inject bicarbonate, it can mess with your blood pH/sodium levels in a bad way.
 
I just tried dissolving some of it in water and didn't notice any reaction of the ketamine going into freebase, so what's up with that?
Also, it is as I said, pure sodium bicarbonate with no anti-caking agents or anything added.

So the bottom line is that injecting it is a bad idea. In that case, is there any (easy) way to filter the ketamine out of the mixture so I can inject only that?
 
What do you mean you didn't notice any reaction? What did it look like after? Clear, cloudy, oily, white solid precipitate? Also how much did you use, if you just used a few mg you probably wouldn't see anything.
 
I don't want to be rude, because I really appreciate your answers and help, but I know next to nothing about chemistry and extraction techniques and I doubt that I'd even have anything here to do these procedures with..

And as I said, I have dissolved some of it in water and it has not become solid as you say ketamine freebase is supposed to be. Do you have an explanation for that?

I was really looking forward to k-holing again tonight after quite a while of abstinence but it looks like this crappy-cut-to-shit ketamine is preventing that (as I'd rather not lose an arm or a leg to get high lol) :(

Any advice is still welcome though.
 
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skillet said:
What do you mean you didn't notice any reaction? What did it look like after? Clear, cloudy, oily, white solid precipitate? Also how much did you use, if you just used a few mg you probably wouldn't see anything.
Click to expand...

I used 200mg of the 'ketamine' in about 1ml of water and did not notice any reaction. The solution in the syringe looks a little cloudy but still clear for the most part.

edit: It's actually pretty much clear and looks the same as any other ketamine solution I have injected in the past for what it's worth..
 
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It's not worth it though, is it. The basic fact is, if you are unable to or are unwilling to separate the baking powder from the ketamine then it is totally unsafe to inject.
 
skillet has the right idea just do a wash on it using VM and P naphtha and idk either ammonia or drainO(powder kind) dissolved in water but I am not familiar with what water base you will have to use to separate it
 
Some things crystallise really easily just by precipitating from water, others not so easily. If you don't have the freebase in the solid form then it must be an oil, which is why I asked if it looks oily on the surface. Another way to tell maybe to shake it, to finely disperse the oil in the water which would make it look cloudy/milky.

Bicarbonate will definitely form the freebase from ketamine salt though, but I'm not sure how fast it is. Maybe leave it a little while and see what happens? Also you should see bubbles of CO2 as the bicarb reacts with the acid from the ketamine salt, though on a small scale that might be hard to see.

Extraction really isn't that hard, you just need to shake it with some lighter fluid (but make sure the lighter fluid evaporates without leaving a residue first), let it settle and remove the lighter fluid, then repeat a couple of times. The lighter fluid then contains the freebase ketamine.

Edit: Bicarb should be fine for freebasing ketamine, even though it's not a strong base the reaction is irreversible and will eventually remove all the HCl as NaCl. It should be very similar to making crack, except as you're not going to be smoking it you really need to get all the bicarb and other stuff out by dissolving in naphtha, drying with epsom salts or something similar, filtering and removing the solvent.

Weather all that is worth it or not I guess depends on how much of the stuff you have.
 
First of:Thanks a lot for the replies guys, especially skillet.
It has been very informational and helpful

Thing is, I have a couple grams of this 'shit' and would really like to use it in my preferred way (IV or IM) so it might be worth it to try something to filter out the sodium bicarb.
Keep in mind though that I'm no chemist and don't really have any chemical supplies at home so the easiest way to do it would be preferable.
Any chance of someone explaining to a chemistry newbie step by step how to purify his ketamine untill it is safe to inject? :D
 
Hehoi tripkop

there is no faster way because there is no concession, you are either being irresponsible / handling this unsafely (and yes possibly getting alkalosis which is messed up, I have had blood gas problems before), OR you can do it the right way which requires some chemicals and patience. If you do not plan on having either just snort it, or better yet find yourself better K.

What you need to do is:
- first add water (distilled water is always preferred),
- then add a solvent like Coleman Fuel, available at hardware stores. Not lighter fluid which would be butane, it is extremely volatile and flamable/explosive.
- Shake them both in a contained that is from HDPE material or better, don't use LDPE. Wait for the two layers to separate again, you should be able to see a line between the transparent fluids.
- Now get the top layer from it, there are devices called separatory funnels for this but some people use turkey basters or pipette like things to get the top. Throw away the bottom half of the liquids.
- Then get an acid like vinegar or hydrochloric acid and add only a little bit to some water, only a few drops of hydrochloric acid should be plenty, or a little more of vinegar which is diluted anyway in the form you can buy it. That acid-containing water can be mixed with the liquid you kept earlier. Shake it again, every time you shake take your time to mix it very thoroughly. And also watch out with pressure building up, let the pressure out often from the container you are using.
- Take your time to let the phases separate again, this time throw the top bit away and keep the rest.
- Dry it and get purified ketamine.

In the name of harm reduction I should be careful about what I say next but there could be an easier way, if you would know the approximate amount of sodium bicarbonate. You can neutralize it by adding a small amount of diluted acid (like a bit of vinegar put in water) to your ket, and it will make the sodium bicarbonate turn in to CO2 gas (which bubbles) and sodium acetate. To make this happen, swirl and shake the liquid you have.

The tricky thing is: if there are no more bubbles coming out then one of two things has happened:"
- there is no more sodium bicarbonate and you are done.
- or you did not add enough acid.

The problem is: if you add too much acid then its not good to inject again, to make sure you dont add too little or too much you would have to get a pH meter, or indicator paper (lakmoes papier).

Be really careful. This can work in theory but realize you are fucking with stuff that you are planning on injecting, and you admit yourself you dont know a whole lot about it. Does that sound like a good way to get into serious problems or not?
 
No problem. Thinking about it though, there might be an easier way. If you can get pure anhydrous isopropanol (a certain well known electronics supply store has it in the UK for cleaning electronic components, though I'm not sure it's completely dry) you should be able to dissolve the ketamine salt while leaving the bicarb/any other stuff behind. Then just filter it and evaporate to give relatively pure ketamine HCl. As long as it's kept dry there should be no significant freebasing of the ketamine salt by the bicarbonate.

I can't find any solubility data for bicarbonate in isopropanol, but in ethanol it is apparently slightly soluble, so it should be even less soluble in isopropanol. Ketamine HCl should be fairly soluble.

I'm pretty confident you could remove most of the bicarb this way, and if it doesn't work you can just mix everything back together and try something else. Maybe someone else could chime in and say how likely it is to work?

Solipsis said:
In the name of harm reduction I should be careful about what I say next but there could be an easier way, if you would know the approximate amount of sodium bicarbonate. You can neutralize it by adding a small amount of diluted acid (like a bit of vinegar put in water) to your ket, and it will make the sodium bicarbonate turn in to CO2 gas (which bubbles) and sodium acetate. To make this happen, swirl and shake the liquid you have.

The tricky thing is: if there are no more bubbles coming out then one of two things has happened:"
- there is no more sodium bicarbonate and you are done.
- or you did not add enough acid.

The problem is: if you add too much acid then its not good to inject again, to make sure you dont add too little or too much you would have to get a pH meter, or indicator paper (lakmoes papier).
Click to expand...

You could just add excess acid, and just dry the salt really well after, which will get rid of all the excess. But doing this, I'm not sure about the safety of injecting a solution containing a few hundred mg of sodium chloride or acetate at high concentrations... I mean, obviously saline is fine, but if you have 200mg sodium chloride in 2mL of water or 10% salt...
 
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Thanks for the replies guys, they have been really helpful.
And while waiting for my regular connect to get good K again (shouldn't be too hard for him considering we live in Belgium, near the Netherlands) I guess I'll have to experiment a little bit to try and separate the bicarb and ketamine as I have given up snorting as a route of administration.

peace & love
 
Isopropanol probably won't dissolve ketamine hydrochloride to any reasonable extent, I'm afraid. Also, injecting vinegar just sounds like a recipe for pain. Ethanol dissolves ketamine HCl at about 1g / 60 mL, but at that dilution it'll dissolve bicarbonate just as easily.

No matter what you do, always use a micron filter when injecting. There's no excuse.
 
I'm surprised I'm the only one to suggest this, but 2 grams of Ketamine isn't a whole lot, it's certainly not worth that risk I'd say. You'd be much better off hanging on to those two grams, and obtaining more that isn't cut.

I'm not sure about Belgium, but here in Poland, and in the UK, 2 grams of Ketamine wasn't hard to come by, and was even certainly a throw-away amount if it was cut and you were putting yourself at any risk using it.

If you must use it though I'd say that you definitely need to separate the sodium bicarbonate before injecting it. Just because it's a relatively benign substance doesn't make it safe to inject.
 
Jesusgreen said:
I'm surprised I'm the only one to suggest this, but 2 grams of Ketamine isn't a whole lot, it's certainly not worth that risk I'd say. You'd be much better off hanging on to those two grams, and obtaining more that isn't cut.

I'm not sure about Belgium, but here in Poland, and in the UK, 2 grams of Ketamine wasn't hard to come by, and was even certainly a throw-away amount if it was cut and you were putting yourself at any risk using it.

If you must use it though I'd say that you definitely need to separate the sodium bicarbonate before injecting it. Just because it's a relatively benign substance doesn't make it safe to inject.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right.
It's just that there has been a ketamine draught around these parts the last few weeks so I had to resort to dealers I'd never do business with otherwise and this is the result. He's a friend of mine though so he straight up told me it was cut and what it was cut with. (50/50 ketamine/sodium bicarb)
That's why I came to bluelight for help to use this in a sensible manner or to get some tips on how to purify the ketamine if possible.

anyway, my regular connect will be resupplied sometime this week so chances are I'll probably won't even use this shit. (unless it's to experiment with those purifying techniques)
 
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