Just when I thought my life was having no meaningful impact...

[Timber]

I wasn't quite sure where to post this...


...I found out my decision to get clean of opioids sparked that in another friend. He has set his date, and done what he can to prepare. I greatly envy that he has 2 weeks solid with nothing he has to do during that period. I wish I had scheduled my quit with having an entire month of nothing pressing to do.

The two struggles my friend has are cannabis, and morphine. I know the second well, but not the first. He also quit amphetamines, cigarettes, and cymbalta recently. Mentally -- he is all over the place, and there is no doubt that its at the limit of what he can handle some days. Antidepressants can have some seriously nasty effects when you quit them; something I have experienced. So I am worried about him, but less because of him adding one more thing into the mix to have PAWS from, but a certain amount of fear he might just be trying to lower his tolerance enough to be able to kill himself with pain meds. Its not a wholly unreasonable fear, but though I know his depression is deep at times -- I think his desire to get free of the medicines to see if it improves his condition is quite sincere.

I don't expect he will get free of benzo's any time soon. Nor that he will be in any shape to give up the other psyche meds he is on. He was one of those ADHD kids that eventually developed anxiety, and depression after years of amphetamine use. He went off them for awhile, replaced with cymbalta and benzos. He has since quit the cymbalta, but has never cut down the benzos; I actually believe the benzos are making his anxiety worse at this point, but I don't think he fully believes me. Add in chronic pain problems from a car accident, and he found his way into a dark hole rather quickly with quite a few mental problems to boot.

Every time I talk with him since he quit amphetamines I am so glad that I never went down that road with anything approaching the greatest timidity. Even though I have absolutely dreadful fatigue at times -- I couldn't and wouldn't make the decision to use them daily as he did. The PAWS from amphetamines seems even worse than the PAWS from opioids at times, and it certainly seems to linger quite a long time.

 

[ad lib]

That's amazing that you inspired your friend. Your life certainly had an impact on others! My friends, as well as other BL'ers inspire me.

Since you state he quit a number of drugs recently, that can probably be a reason why your friend seems emotionally up & down. After I quit opiates, I was ver moody. Since it was almost 1 month ago (4/3!!) I still am moody, just not as bad. Chemically, it will take a while for the body to get used to its "new" state. Also, I have an absolutely amazing friend in my life who I can talk with & who connects with me emotionally, so if you can be that person for your friend then you will probably help tremendously, and your friendship bond will become much stronger as a result, too

My best advice is to stick by him & help him if he needs it. If he needs space- that's fine too. Maybe suggest he create a Bluelight account and point him to this section?

Best of luck to your friend, and congratulations to *you* also for quitting opiates!!

 

[Biohazardess]

Your feelings of concern for your friend are Not unreasonable at all. You wouldn't have just made the idea up on your own unless he had somehow given you a reason to think of it.
On November 26, 2011, the Saturday following Thanksgiving I woke up to my children playing in the livingroom and watching TV, and my best friend/ex boyfriend dead on my couch right there in front of my kids. They didnt appear to have known (thank God)... Hell, I sat down and had a cup of coffee thinking he was asleep until i noticed how motionless his stomach was.. He had moved away in June to get away from a pretty nasty benzo habit and YEARS of opiate addiction, and a current trip to the methadone clinic every day... While he was gone he went thru withdrawals from everything, cold turkey. Then in august he relocated again with an old friend and ended up on speed. So by November he had been opiate/opioid free for near 5 months and yeah, the second he got into town he purchased large quantities of methadone tens and had his dr refill his script for 90 xanax. That was on wednesday. He died sometime after he got too my house at 130 am friday night. He walked up my stairs himself, he talked too me and he didnt look excessively fucked off... I mean id been gettin fucked up with him for years and id seen him worse. He kissed my forehead and said "you know i love you right?" And i told him he should sit before he fell down. He sat on the couch and went to sleep.
They found his xanax bottle empty. He gave me 10 of them but i doubt he let go of anymore so im not sure what went down. The autopsy determined the COD was "accidental methadone overdose" and his levels didnt seem higher than expected.... They did not mention the deadly combination of xanax and dones together nor did they rule it a suicide due to over the top numbers on his tox screen. He had 30 or so dones tucked away in his luggage at his mothers that we found much later, so... I know he loved me and was comfortable and happy and right where he wanted to be when he died... So my instinct tells me that maybe he didnt Kill Himself to commit suicide but he was done feeling hopeless and he was in his happy place. He didnt want it to end. I dont know what really happened but i do know that his tolerance wasnt as high as it had been the last time he ate a handfull of random pills and he was taking, the night before, the same amounts hed have taken before he left.
Having said all of that, percentage wise, the likelihood of relapse with opiod dependency is very high. Not many people ever end up having gotten completely free of that demon because the longer periods of time that go by the harder the withdrawals are on your body and your spirit... Your fear may not have even crossed His Mind at this point, but its still a very dangerous situation when you start looking at possible relapses.
Be there for him. Let him be depressed. But dont let him be Alone. I mean, make sure he knows you are there for him. Get him outside in the sun and keep him moving around. And if you feel comfortable discussing this with him, maybe you should just mention it.
You seem to be a genuine friend so, you are doing all you can. If something like that happens, it will not be Your Fault. Please know that much.
Congratulations on being his inspiration to stop tho...
Much Peace and Love too you both

 

[neversickanymore]

^^ Biohazardess I'm sorry for your loss and for the way it went down. I hope you have found healthy ways of trying to cope. Good advice on timber supporting his friend. Welcome to Bluelight. Methadone and alprazolam is a pretty strong combo and should never be trifled with.


Isn't it amazing timber how people pay attention, nobody keeps up the gossip like our kind, I think i may have heard through the grapevine things I hadn't even done yet. People pay attention and definitely get inspired.. and i don't know, I think the busier you are the faster the process goes. Nice work on maintaining the sobriety. made me think of that line from trainspotting... Take Sick Boy, for instance. He came off junk at the same time as me — not because he wanted to, you understand, but just to annoy me. Just to show me how easily he could do it, thereby downgrading my own struggle. Ha.. Allot of times whole crew will clean up, or a big part of a crew, but allot of times when one jumps back a whole bunch follow, just something to think about.. be well.

 

[Timber]

Biohazardess, I can only imagine what a horrible day that was. I've lost friends to chronic pain, and to heroin use, but I have never had it happen in my own house in front of my kid.


Yes, I have reasons for my concerns. I've setup a regular appointment of sorts with him -- we have lunch once a week, and often take a trip out to the country because it makes us both feel better to destress around the campfire. I'm actually considering it now -- my stress level is at a peak, and it shouldn't be.

I plan on checking in on him during withdrawal as I know it helpful to me to have someone willing to pick up anything I needed. I didn't feel like leaving the house for 6 days during. Its not the withdrawal itself I worry about, its the after that period. If he makes it through the withdrawal (no guarantee of that), I'm a bit concerned he will do something stupid when the PAWS hits hard or that he does have an alternate plan. Just things in his words that give me a lot of pause, you know? Not a suicide I would take well as he has been my friend for more than 20 years. He is around now because he butt dialed me the last time he tried it, and was incoherent when I tried to talk to him. If not for an incredible tolerance I don't think he would have survived that attempt -- which was pretty much within a week of stopping cymbalta. So he doesn't always have that perspective of jumping off of XYZ isn't going to make you feel good for awhile, but it might improve with time.

 

[Timber]

After my conversation today with him today I know that my fears were justified in every way. He is definitely torn between the desire to get clean and the desire to end it all. Rather exhausting day with some time that was expensive to give (and unlikely to change outcomes). No one can stop another from themselves if that is what they choose.

He is a former EMT, and knows darn well what not to say to keep from an involuntary stay in the medical community. Short of having him incarcerated there isn't anything I can do, and considering that stay would likely be incredibly lengthy -- I am in no position to help any more than I have as I'm not willing to do that.

 

[soundsystem00]

Sometimes doing the right thing helps others. Other people can see your progress, and they look up to that, and they want what you have.

Continue to do the right thing and you will help your friend. In the meantime, give him any advice you can, and do whatever you can to help him, but do not let it get in the way of your sobriety. You can't force him to quit, and he may not be entirely ready yet.

I have been in a similar situation with friends. They came to me for help, and I got the books out, only for them to flake out overtime and go back to there old ways.

Instead of blaming myself, I just realized that sometimes people just aren't ready. When they are, I know they will contact me.

Keep up the good work.

 

[Biohazardess]

That really sucks Timber. I totally relate tho. I knew Josh would or at least wanted to end his life and there was no way i could stop him either... I didnt expect it would go down on my couch in my livingroom, but i couldnt change that either.
Its a very personal and deeply rooted wound but im well aware that i did all i could.

Youre a great friend for giving a shit enough to have it even on your mind. So many ppl dont see past the end of their nose at the future and certainly not the future of others around them.. Sometimes us addicts can be selfish as hell and well, you seem to have a good head about you. Just keep it up. Do Good and Try Hard! Our best is the best we can do, ya know?

 

[herbavore]

After my conversation today with him today I know that my fears were justified in every way. He is definitely torn between the desire to get clean and the desire to end it all. Rather exhausting day with some time that was expensive to give (and unlikely to change outcomes). No one can stop another from themselves if that is what they choose.

He is a former EMT, and knows darn well what not to say to keep from an involuntary stay in the medical community. Short of having him incarcerated there isn't anything I can do, and considering that stay would likely be incredibly lengthy -- I am in no position to help any more than I have as I'm not willing to do that.

I had to watch that struggle with my late son. It is excruciating because you are helpless but you are constantly on alert, as if you can do something. It is the hardest thing in the world to care without trying to control. Everything you are doing is perfect. No matter what path your friend takes, it is his own. Your path includes being a good friend--and this is what you are being. You are making a difference in his life, that much is fact.