Harm Reduction Just didn't seem right to me..

[ANewKindOfArmy]

So i was in Rehab this last time to come off my Sub Mat program and Valium/Xanax ( mostly xanax as i was rx'ed both and at the end started over eating the xanax, hence the need for rehab to come off both ) Anyway I came in with a 8mg Bupe a day tolorance and around 12mg xanax a day deal. Now when i was Admitted i was told about the places detox program and all sounded about normal. So the morning comes and They crush up Subutex mix it with WATER and forced us to swallow it. This didn't seem right to me, So i straight asked and explained i was always told by Dr's, Other Rehabs, everywhere that i was to take it sublingually. So the nurse then says " it's a different subutex pill, we mix it with water and it makes it work quicker and more effective". To me it sounded like a way of them getting people in and out of the nurses station almost immediately and stopping the risk of people cheeking them. Therefore making their job easier but leaving detoxing patients sick.. Also i never felt any better after swallowing it but was chalking it up to benzo wd.

I was also told i was going to be given low dose Klonopin for the benzo taper as the tolorance and duration of use was pretty serious. I was given Sirax and had a really bad seizure and was hospitalized, felt trippy and paniced all the time etc tipical benzo withdrawl shit so i figured it was mostly the benzo's kicking my ass. Then after talking to other patients there for opiates i realized NONE of them felt any better even ones with very low tolorances where as in other rehabs and also on the street ive witnessed people feeling it HEAVY from HALF of that bupe dose with that kind of tolorance. While continued benzo withdrawal would account for me not feeling any better from bupe doses,it didn't for them. i started recently thinking maybe it was full blown un tapered withdrawals from bupe making it far worse. As i was dosed 6mgs my first day all at once while at home i was taking 4mgs 2x daily. Maybe im over thinking it but i was honestly wondering

My question really is Has anyone else ever heard of this with subutex being mixed and forced to swallow it?

Thanks in Advance,
-B

 

[dirzted]

Dude, I'm not part of your life, I'm just some dumbass on Bluelight, but still, I will say this.

GET THE FUCK OUT OF THAT FUCKING REHAB BRO

NO there is NO subutex mixing with "water" method to make it active orally, if there was you'd be damn sure it'd already be on Bluelight, still, that is MALPRACTICE no questions asked, if this actually happened, they literally forcibly induced a seizure on you and caused a massive amount of unnecessary suffering, and not to just you, (again if you're claims are true about the other patients).

GTFO,GTFO,GTFO, and....

GET THE FUCK OUT!!!! It's hard to read this man, I really hope you read up on more of this stuff so you can know to call bullshit when you see it but jesus if this is actually happening than I am very concerned about every person that has entered that rehab in that they have essentially experienced institutionalized torture.

I'm sorry if this post was somewhat lacking in seriousness, but really, I hope you can get out of there for the sake of your own well being, that is truly a horrible act against humanity to treat people like this...

 

[sekio]

To me it sounded like a way of them getting people in and out of the nurses station almost immediately and stopping the risk of people cheeking them. Therefore making their job easier but leaving detoxing patients sick..

That's pretty much it.

It sounds like you're just getting a raw deal.

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

I fucking KNEW IT !!! and sadly it really is the truth.

This was actually in May of this year. I was in 4 other rehabs, 5 detoxes/rehabs total. I do have a pretty good knowledge of the opiates including the bio avails and all that but im not a chemist and thought MAYBE somehow they came out with a Combination specifically for habs to make Bupe have a higher oral bio avail and actually work orally. The problem was when it was med time there you either took it as they gave it which was crushed, mixed with water or you got NOTHING and were marked down as refusing medication. So even though i KNEW it was a long shot but it was worth a shot opposed to no chance of feeling better...

Countless people were causing scenes when they were down there and would go back and scream at them they would just ignore you. I was so never so sick in my life and i used to have a pretty severe iv heroin addiction. Now the issue why i didn't just straight leave is as im sure you may know if you're also an addict but I needed my family for a place to stay, and eat and everything until i could get back on my feet and after 4 previous treatments even in 3 of the 4 previous were just detoxes and came home( rarely ever works) if i AMA'ed ( leave against medical advice) i would have been told to go fuck myself and been called a liar for that being the reason i left so i was in a shitty shitty spot. When i was in the hospital after the seizures i told them about why i was there. The Dr's looked confused when i said it was given orally mixed with water and we were forced to swallow it. He didn't say anything about the Serax instead of the Klonopin taper though. I guess maybe my issue was really just that bad where seizures were inevitable but on my release papers from there on the continued treatment papers it had SUBLINGUAL SUBUTEX in bold and highlighted with a Yellow highlighter, and i was STILL forced to swallow subutex water.

Im still going through some serious mental shit as in my anxiedy/panic disorder is about 10x worse than it ever was ( and it was bad before) and it makes me wonder if it was because of the way i was tapered or lack there of. If the moderators think it's ok ( im not sure if it's allowed or not) i can put down the name of this place so Nobody on bluelight or friends or loved ones of anyone on Bluelight have to go through this kind of treatment.

Thank Yous for the replies i hope not but im curious if anyone else at another facility has been through this and how they felt during and after. Be safe out there

-B

 

[phatass]

Sounds like you ot screwed, and not in a good way bro.....

R U Off the opiates and benzos now?

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

Yes i am. 7 months.

 

[phatass]

Nice one bro, i'm 2+ months opiate clean, off the subs alltogether, lower, benzos.... kindof diggin the psychs, dissos, and stims (a bit too much atm...) but have mad emuch progress


n e way props for your 7 months.... whats your secret? r u on other stuff? or gone completely clean? sport?

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

Congrats man that's awesome! and Thank You. I can't say completely clean as i do still drink but that is all. Totally off everything. I really dont think i have a secret to be honest this whole experience has been so bad that i've been looking at it like ok their is no chance i'd ever be able to go through this again as in i'd never make it this long again after a week i was like ok i'd never make it this long again so mine as well roll with it. So basically ( not saying have this mind set ) but If i was going to go back to drugs i'd just off myself and i don't want to die so I'm riding it out. I've been rx'ed benzo's since i was 16 and damn man i always read on here and stuff about how nasty benzo withdrawal could be but i still didn't expect all this. I really didn't think i could possibly get sicker than i did when i was doing H 4 years ago but shit was i wrong. So really just kind of riding it out waiting for it to get better. Ive read about people being like this from benzo's for up to a year so im not too far off know what i mean? Be safe man!

- B

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

To be honest the worst part of this has been how brutal the rebound anxiedy and panic has been. It's so bad i dont even want to go outside, or be in any kind of public my hearts always racing, sweat, Panic attacks and mind races from the second i open my eyes until i go to sleep and i still bearly sleep if im lucky 3-4 hours a night but shit it's better than 3 months ago when it was 1-2 hours a night so it's progress. I just gotta figure out how to control this anxiedy and panic i mean i've always been rx'ed meds for it and it somewhat helped but i'm afraid to take anything at this point. Hopefully i figure something out.

 

[phatass]

Word man, i was cut off benzos, methadone and GBL the last was not Rx, i cold turkeyed all 3 and went into psychosis and alcoholism, for 6-7 months... the benzo PAWS were infernal.... worse than anything i could ever imagine... i was put back on benzos in rehab eventually, since nothing else worked ( was pumped full of shitty ultra high dose anti psychotics like cyamemazine in some wonder, miracle hope thy had it would change the PAWS... lol, wll not lol at the time.... nasty shit, i also lots of other stuff bfore they put me back on a lower dose of benzos), as i started drinking very heavy when i went psychotic.

But yeah, sortof working now, got a 9 to 4, a relationship with a charming lady, our own roof, small but cosy, and a large but waaay smaller than before Rx and no opiates...

my Psych, has evoked a benzo taper for next time i see him, but honestly, i don't see myself without any benzos anytime soon unfortunately, might try to diminish a bit, but i don't think i'm ready at al...

but yeah, one day at a time mostly.

All the best to ya anewkindofarmy......

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

Yeah man at this point i don't know what to do.. they're tried so many meds on me over the years. Pretty much all the big name SSRI's 1 SSNI ( effexor) anti psy's like Thorazine and Seroquel both of them make me feel terrible , Seroquel speedy feeling and made my heart feel like it was going to explode panic attack style and Thorazine just did nothing but i felt just generally bad Some shit Propropenal (sp) didn't do anything at all. Benzo's seemed to be the only things that have worked over the years and now i just got this feeling like im totally fucked and just destined to feel like this forever. They tried Gabapentin on me in rehabs but it never seemed to do anything noticeable so why take it if it doesn't help know what i mean? I don't know what to do but hope this gets better but it's hard to believe since it's clearly gotten steadily worse every so often. its honestly so fucking bad at this point not to bitch or moan but i cant even work because i can't be out in a social situation at all anymore. Anyway i guess ill just hope for the best. And All the best to you too man. Be Safe.

 

[black kat]

Ill tell you this.

In my subutex clinic(outpatient program,we go each morning and leave after we are given the bupe under supervision) people who want to use heroin but cannot avoid the bupe,are the ones that swallow it.
It is said to have bioavailability of somewhere 10% when swallowed,so the bupe is almost totally being wasted.

Ive done this myself a couple of times,heroin did something to me a couple of hours later(if i had taken the sub properly/sublingually,the heroin wouldnt do anything),and somewhat 8-10 hours later,i felt heroin's full effects.

So youre right man,the nurses just wanted to get the job done without someone spitting out or hiding the subs in his mouth,without caring if the patient is relieved or not..

 

[phatass]

Yeah man at this point i don't know what to do.. they're tried so many meds on me over the years. Pretty much all the big name SSRI's 1 SSNI ( effexor) anti psy's like Thorazine and Seroquel both of them make me feel terrible , Seroquel speedy feeling and made my heart feel like it was going to explode panic attack style and Thorazine just did nothing but i felt just generally bad Some shit Propropenal (sp) didn't do anything at all. Benzo's seemed to be the only things that have worked over the years and now i just got this feeling like im totally fucked and just destined to feel like this forever. They tried Gabapentin on me in rehabs but it never seemed to do anything noticeable so why take it if it doesn't help know what i mean? I don't know what to do but hope this gets better but it's hard to believe since it's clearly gotten steadily worse every so often. its honestly so fucking bad at this point not to bitch or moan but i cant even work because i can't be out in a social situation at all anymore. Anyway i guess ill just hope for the best. And All the best to you too man. Be Safe.

Thanks, hopee things work out... it's a step above gabapentin, but a step below benzos Pregabalin (Lyrica) it's a bit "iffy" if you had long term benzo addiction, and are now clean... the best obviously would be you get back to "normal" without meds... i'm putting it out there, but it does hav abuse potential, will stimulate your GABA... possibly give you benzo cravings, dunno really, probably best to not take the risk.
Again, best wishes to ya!

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

Black Kat - Damn man here in philly i haven't heard of Bupe outpatient mat like that methadone style ( go in get your dose and leave ) here in my experience has been you go in, piss hot for bupe or other opiates tell them the severity of your issue and then you're dosed most people including myself were given 3 8mgs a day ( kinda over the top huh?) in a take home rx. Usually a weeks worth at first then come in piss for em, then 2 weeks, and so on. I have heard of people getting a month faster though. I knew it had to have SOME oral bio avail but never actually read into the % of it. Just from the jump there knew this wasnt right. Thanks for the feedback. Be safe.

Phatass - See it's been very very weird as in not once as bad as it got never once for some reason did i ever have the thought of getting more of them to feel better when i can say sadly when i was in rehabs for H, when it got bad bad, 3 of them i left and relapsed because i couldnt seem to handle the wd's. Where as in this situation weirdly being alot worse in my opinion didn't have that mindset at all. Now it's been almost 8 months and im afraid to take any med because i dont want that feeling of wanting it again. Ive ALWAYS had depression and anxiedy issues to a bad level. The issue is this shit is to a point of i dont know what to actually do. I can't look people anywhere near the face, cant sleep, if im in public situations it's so bad that i can't think straight because of mind races and just that HORRIBLE FEELING i cant explain and its weird because im not intimidated by said people its just there at ALL TIMES from the second i wake up if i do sleep. I always catch my self stuttering or messing up speech when i have no speech issues. I can't even work because of this shit it's honestly not laziness. So i really have a serious problem here and i guess i HAVE to work on something. I've tried muiltple un-medicated therapys for it and Dr's keep actually trying to put me on Benzo's and SSRI's again. I hate the fact that Dr's even when you tell them you have been rx'ed said med before they think because THEY RX it their will be a different reaction. Ego shit. The benzo's would definitely help knock it down to a easier to deal with level. it's just i feel so uneasy about it that i keep saying no. Have you tried Lyrica for this? Any other suggestions would really help. Thanks again for taking time to try and help me out.

Be Safe,
- B

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

Black Kat - Damn man here in philly i haven't heard of Bupe outpatient mat like that methadone style ( go in get your dose and leave ) here in my experience has been you go in, piss hot for bupe or other opiates tell them the severity of your issue and then you're dosed most people including myself were given 3 8mgs a day ( kinda over the top huh?) in a take home rx. Usually a weeks worth at first then come in piss for em, then 2 weeks, and so on. I have heard of people getting a month faster though. I knew it had to have SOME oral bio avail but never actually read into the % of it. Just from the jump there knew this wasnt right. Thanks for the feedback. Be safe.

Phatass - See it's been very very weird as in not once as bad as it got never once for some reason did i ever have the thought of getting more of them to feel better when i can say sadly when i was in rehabs for H, when it got bad bad, 3 of them i left and relapsed because i couldnt seem to handle the wd's. Where as in this situation weirdly being alot worse in my opinion didn't have that mindset at all. Now it's been almost 8 months and im afraid to take any med because i dont want that feeling of wanting it again. Ive ALWAYS had depression and anxiedy issues to a bad level. The issue is this shit is to a point of i dont know what to actually do. I can't look people anywhere near the face, cant sleep, if im in public situations it's so bad that i can't think straight because of mind races and just that HORRIBLE FEELING i cant explain and its weird because im not intimidated by said people its just there at ALL TIMES from the second i wake up if i do sleep. I always catch my self stuttering or messing up speech when i have no speech issues. I can't even work because of this shit it's honestly not laziness. So i really have a serious problem here and i guess i HAVE to work on something. I've tried muiltple un-medicated therapys for it and Dr's keep actually trying to put me on Benzo's and SSRI's again. I hate the fact that Dr's even when you tell them you have been rx'ed said med before they think because THEY RX it their will be a different reaction. Ego shit. The benzo's would definitely help knock it down to a easier to deal with level. it's just i feel so uneasy about it that i keep saying no. Have you tried Lyrica for this? Any other suggestions would really help. Thanks again for taking time to try and help me out.

Be Safe,
- B

 

[5StarSquatHotel]

It only has a bio-availability of 10% when taken oral so you were getting a dose but just smaller amounts that you thought.

 

[phatass]

>"ANEWKIND...."Only time i used lyrica, i abused the fuck out of it... so i have no decent, wothwhile first hand experience with pregalin. Unfortunatly, howver i do know it is an effeciant anxiolytic for many, a GABAa "tingler" i think, but do not know much more.... don't want to give you any "falsehope" but do a maximimum research on Pregabalin aka. Lyyrica, Google, wiki, erowid, , Bluelight (obviously) Drugs-forum and more....
good luck!

p.s. can't find my glasses after, my last rerererererere dose of MXE, that one dose, you just shouldn't do, but do anyway....

 

[《Plasticity》]

^Lol type with one eye closed, really helps with that MXE vision

Disgusting how they would sacrifice their rehabees (word? lol) well being just to make their job a bit easier 8). Why not just keep it in your mouth anyways? Stand there for 10-15 minutes if you have to, it's not like your gonna share your spit/sub concoction with the others or purposely spit it out so you can suffer more. What are they gonna do... force you to swallow it? I haven't read all posts but have you mentioned how poorly absorbed sub is when swallowed? All it takes is a google search for those fuckers to realize what their doing is only hurting they're patients.

 

[mostly-human]

^Lol type with one eye closed, really helps with that MXE vision

Completely off-topic, but reading this reminded me of 12+ years ago, taking datura - the only way I was able to read/write in the partially 'blind' days following a brutal tea was to quite literally make myself go cross-eyed. I was blown-away when I figure that out.

 

[ANewKindOfArmy]

They literely had a CVS style pill crusher they would crush it then with a water pitcher pour water into the little tipcal dose cups they use in rehabs hospitals wards etc. Then mix the concoction with a tongue suppressor They would hand you that first made sure you swallowed it with amouth check then would hand you whatever other pills you were yo brbe dosed right after then search again.. so you really couldn't. Place was terrible in so many aspects I could go on for days about the fucked up shit going on there.