Opioids Just Can't Get High From DHC / Dihydrocodeine

[Rybee]

Hey Peeps - newbie to the forum here, although I've browsed it as a guest for 6 months or so. Some great advice and nice people so hi hi

I have suffered from sciatic nerve pain for a long time and although it is getting better I do milk it with the doctor for the painkillers. To be fair he is happy to prescribe me I want (within reason ofc) on the condition that I pop in once a week or so which is fine.

I've had millions of 30mg codeine phosphate tabs which were fine to play about with at the start. I usually take about 450mg of it to get a nice high. Not extreme frothing at the mouth high, but a nice warm buzz to listen to some music in bed and enjoy it.

I also get oramorph every now and then when the pain is genuinely crucifying me, again 45ml of morphine does the job - equal to the codeine dose.

I can't take Tramadol, although have done in the past, due to the risk of serotonin syndrome from taking a wedge of Venlafaxine daily.

So I thought I'd try DHC as it was touted as 'twice as potent as 30mgCP tabs' and I was prescribed 56x30mg tabs, so a fair amount to play with. Since it was 'twice as potent' I thought I'd use my noggin and just take half of the 450mg I usually take, ended up as 8x30mg tablets=240mg. An hour had passed and the only thing I felt was like I was infested with fleas! Itching like hell! I had absolutely NO high at all. The next night I increased the dose by 50% and took 12 tabs=360mg and again just got the itches like mad but genuinely felt nothing at all.

However, as far as pain relief goes, it definitely does the job. I've had terrible migraines this week and 60mg of DHC knocks off at least 75% of the pain and really makes the migraines much more tolerable.


I still have quite a lot of it left and have kind of stuck it to one side for genuine pain relief because it seems to do a good job. But has anyone got an explanation as to why it works as a pain relief, gives me the itches like crazy, but produces next to no high? I've read some posts of people really raving about DHC which is why I thought I'd give it a go, but I'm at a bit of a loss?

Quite open & interested to hearing any input/suggestions.

Thanks guys

 

[Machete]

For me and plenty of others, DHC and codeine are basically equipotent. Even with a fortunate metabolism, you wouldn't normally expect DHC to be any more than about 1.5x as powerful. Expecting it to be twice as powerful is certainly unrealistic. And, also, comparing codeine and DHC in the way that you are trying to is a bit like comparing apples and oranges because neither is metabolised to the other so they can't really be equated. For that reason, your difference in reaction is not overly surprising because we're all so very different!

I'm actually surprised that you can even get the proper effects from regular codeine given that venlafaxine is an inhibitor of the enzyme CYP2D6 (2D6 is the enzyme behind the metabolism of codeine to morphine) -- although I think there's an alternative theory for explaining the effects of codeine so that's probably related. Anyway, if it's the dihydromorphine from the DHC metabolism that actually gets you high then the venlafaxine would explain your situation because the conversion from DHC to dihydromorphine is also by 2D6. Interesting, in your case, is that there's evidence to suggest that the presence of 2D6 inhibitors is not an accurate determinant of DHC's analgesia (which explains why it works as a painkiller for you).

Long story short: it's probably a venlafaxine interaction. I think that venlafaxine inhibits the metabolism of both codeine and DHC in different ways and that it's inhibiting the production of the morphine-based shit you need to get high. There's not a lot you can do about that unless you want to stop taking the venlafaxine (which you probably shouldn't!)

Good luck

EDIT: I'd be interested to know if you can link the loss in recreational efficacy of normal codeine to the time around which you started taking the venlafaxine.

 

[brutus]

Bluelight isn't here to help you get high. Maybe DHC just isn't for you. Please PM me if you have any questions and make sure you read the rules in my signature.

 

[Rybee]

Bluelight isn't here to help you get high. Maybe DHC just isn't for you. Please PM me if you have any questions and make sure you read the rules in my signature.

Hi brutus, do apologise if my post came across in the wrong way. I was rather seeking the science behind the chemistry of the process because I just couldn't make sesnse of why it was acting in the way it was. I just found it a little baffling and always like to know as much as possible about anything I take! Do appreciate your concerns though, thanks

 

[Rybee]

...

Wow I envy your knowledge! Do appreciate taking the time to reply to me, thank you!

For me and plenty of others, DHC and codeine are basically equipotent. Even with a fortunate metabolism, you wouldn't normally expect DHC to be any more than about 1.5x as powerful. Expecting it to be twice as powerful is certainly unrealistic. And, also, comparing codeine and DHC in the way that you are trying to is a bit like comparing apples and oranges because neither is metabolised to the other so they can't really be equated. For that reason, your difference in reaction is not overly surprising because we're all so very different!

That's good to know. General internet browsing has proved awful at providing accurate information so it's nice to read something which I know is reliable. It was actually my GP who stated that it was twice as powerful as codeine, hence why the therapeutic dose was 30mgDHC and not 2x30mgCP. He also said that it 'worked in the same way as codeine' and having codeine in the name of it, I just assumed it was a morphine pro-drug too. After reading up a little more I can see where my assumptions and naive reasonings have lead me to be wrong!

I'm actually surprised that you can even get the proper effects from regular codeine given that venlafaxine is an inhibitor of the enzyme CYP2D6 (2D6 is the enzyme behind the metabolism of codeine to morphine) -- although I think there's an alternative theory for explaining the effects of codeine so that's probably related.

This is news to me! Venlafaxine has been a bit of a bugger to be on really, it just seems to stop everything from working or has some contraindication or other with everything, but it's not something I will consider compromising just yet as my mental health has improved so much so I'm happy for the moment. I'll have a read up about the CYP2D6 enzyme some more, so thanks for the tip off.

Anyway, if it's the dihydromorphine from the DHC metabolism that actually gets you high then the venlafaxine would explain your situation because the conversion from DHC to dihydromorphine is also by 2D6. Interesting, in your case, is that there's evidence to suggest that the presence of 2D6 inhibitors is not an accurate determinant of DHC's analgesia (which explains why it works as a painkiller for you.

That is very interesting to know and would explain my situation!

Long story short: it's probably a venlafaxine interaction. I think that venlafaxine inhibits the metabolism of both codeine and DHC in different ways and that it's inhibiting the production of the morphine-based shit you need to get high. There's not a lot you can do about that unless you want to stop taking the venlafaxine (which you probably shouldn't!)

This does make sense to me. As said, due to assumptions and naivety I was under the impression that DHC and CP 'worked in the same way' and I guess they do depending how broadly you interpret this. I guess my GP just said it to me as a patient who doesn't need to know much more other than they're both opioids that help to kill pain.

I'm away for a long weekend tomorrow so when I'm back home I might try an equal dose (420mg of DHC - which is double what I originally took) to the amount of codeine that I usually take, to see whether little or no effect was just because I was under the impression that it was 'twice as potent'. Will be interesting to see what the reaction is. I'm kind of hoping it will still be none because that may reveal more about the nature of the interaction between Venlafaxine which would be interesting.

I'd be interested to know if you can link the loss in recreational efficacy of normal codeine to the time around which you started taking the venlafaxine.

Tbh I can't really comment. I've been taking Venlafaxine for over 2 years now and have only recently (6 months or so) had the odd dibble in opioids every now and then just for a relaxing night once in a while.



I really do appreciate your input buddy, it's so good to get proper advice and an education from someone who is not from yahoo answers I find the interactions quite fascinating so it's great to learn. Once again, really appreciate your help