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JJJ 5HTP Warning

smileyfish

smileyfish

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 8, 2002
Messages
1,091
Location
QLD - Australia
Triple J just played a little pre-recorded 'info-bit' on drugs regarding ecstacy and pre-loading with 5htp (super request; ~7pm)

The blip started out saying that some people pre-load with vitamins etc to maximise effects & reduce comedown effects. It then mentioned 5htp (saying it was an extract from a South-American plant!?!?) and serotonin, stating that the "jury was still out" on the use of 5htp and that there was some evidence of negative effects. Finished up with a statement to the effect of 'don't mix any drugs together, even natural, plant drugs' ie don't take 5htp as a pre-load for E as it is too risky. 8o

WTF? Johnboy? Anyone?
 
5-HTP is an extract of a south african plant... it's called griffonia simplicifolia and the 5-HTP caps you buy contain the extract of that plant that is 'equivalent to XXXmg of 5-HTP'.

IMHO you'll notice the value of 5-HTP when you run out. It's a wonderful approach to harm reduction after ectsacy, and I wouldn't roll without it. Don't take it with SSRI antidepressants.

BigTrancer :)
 
They are right - there is no absolute proof 5HTP is either safe or helpful as a pre-load or as a post-load. But there is the experiences of many BL'ers, which suggest it is generally safe and helpful as a post-load. Theroetically, it is possible that pre-loading with a high dose could be dangerous. And given that it has not been well researched, I think they are just advising caution. Particularly as there is a portion of the population that go "natural product? Then it must be both cool and safe!" when of course this is often not the case.
 
the body was never designed for serotonin to be rapidly depleted, and therefore rapidly replenished. unlike dopamine serotonin replenishes very slowly, ive read it returns to operational levels after 24 but this is by no means 100% capacity. theoretically 5HTP would work but i really think Paul Dillon was more focusing on the preloading aspect, which i think is a waste of time, unless you’ve had MDMA the night before don’t bother preloading... that’s my opinion, i don’t think it increases the roll at all. post loading is a different kettle of fish...
 
Personally i like to preload, I find it especially helpfull if i've gone out within the week before. This may only be a placebo but it works for me so i'll keep doing it. What I usually do is only preload the night before or the morning of a night out but if your only dumping once a month I wouldn't worry about it.

For me I find the next day after a preload I feel less scatterd, and more stable although I do postload as well. I reccomend you do what works for you.
 
i was under the impression that it hasn't been established that postloading works (as opposed to preloading)??
 
Thankyou!!!

Thanks BabyDoc, BT and CowboyMac!

I was curious as to how much was true. As I don't take 5HTP myself (I'm a one pill every 3-4 months user and I eat losts of l-tryptophan containing foods & Sustagen Sport afterwards), I can't really comment on its effects - just thought others might like to know what's being circulated in the media.

COuld you point me to any papers on 5HTP studies? I'm curious now...
 
Vat iz futenbagen?

I wouldn't put too much stock in what Triple J has to say about drugs (keeping in mind that it is a government radio station). I heard them do a short pre-recorded segment on g in which they spent 80% of the segment talking about a man who pulled his girlfriends teeth out while they were on g (<cough> scare tactics <cough>) and the remainder was some miscellaneous facts which didn't give the listener a real understanding of what the drug is, or does.
Shame Hinchey, shame.
 
^^ the guy whos segment that is, is Paul Dillon who works for the National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre (NDARC) and hes not a dimwit. he also does a lot of good work trying to educate the average triplej drug user. i agree the g thing was a bit of a scare tactic, but he was telling the truth, i remember reading the article a while back when the guy pulled the teeth. sure its an exteme case but he did also go on to say drugs effect different people in different ways, which is true. although i would have like a more 'realistic' soundbite on g, there was nothing wrong with the 5htp one.
 
In an ancedotal way, I found that if you pre-load too late with 5-HTP, it can be a bad thing.

At an event somewhere, quite ironically named "Overdose", I had the misfortune of doing this (at the time I thought I wasn't taking any MDMA that night, and I was just taking a small amount for a slight neurochemical depression). I ended up in a sweaty and fucked up state of mind on a bus in Granville thinking that I was going to die, with all the hallmarks of the beginning of serotonin syndrome. Thankfully, I threw up on the way to a friends house, which was very theraputic and quite good for my body at the time. When I reached my destination I stripped off and crashed on their sofa with the fan on uber high.

(Thanks go to Smigglepop, Kub and his boyfriend for being so understanding)
 
The same goes for taking the postload too early.

Whilst i am fully for using 5-HTP and never pill without it, there have been a few times where i have possibly approached serotonin syndrome or something similar - very dizzy, sick, must lie down - it then passes after couple of hours and i feel great.

Basically it only ever happens if i have had more than my fair share, and then i pop the 5-HTP without considering just how long it is since my last pill - I personally feel the pill is over and hence i go the HTP, but clearly it is not - e.g: we are talking like 2 hours or so here since the last half was popped.

As i said very rarely does it happen, and it is my own fault that it does, not paying attention to the clock so to speak, but it is something to keep in mind.

So just make sure you are not loaded up on MDMA, even if your brain is telling u your not, and then have a HTP.
 
L-Tryptophan?

what about L-Tryptophan? is it considered the same as 5-HTP, or is there a difference... i know that its the precursor to 5-HTP, but what does it actually mean in terms of its effects?
i read that only 1% of L-Tryptophan is converted into seratonin, and that much of it is used by the body? i have some vitamins that contain Tryptophan and VitB6... does this mean theyre useless for postloading with?
 
Theroetically, it is possible that pre-loading with a high dose could be dangerous.
Click to expand...

What would be considered an adequate does pre and post?

Basically it only ever happens if i have had more than my fair share, and then i pop the 5-HTP without considering just how long it is since my last pill - I personally feel the pill is over and hence i go the HTP, but clearly it is not - e.g: we are talking like 2 hours or so here since the last half was popped.
Click to expand...

When would be an appropiate time to pre and post load?
 
IzGood: I don't want to speculate. All I will say is thatI personally never take more than 50 - 100mg of 5htp in one dose and no more than 150mg total per day as a post load. I also use an enteric coated formula because it is claimed that reduces the likelihood of the 5htp being metabolised to serotonin in the peripheral circulation (though I don't have a reference to support that), which apparently increases unpleasant side effects. I think the safest way is to try a low dose at first, in divided doses.

DeSpise: there are a few issues with using l-tryptophan. First, it is prescription only in Australia, so difficult to get (there is one formulation available in health stores but the dose is too small to be of benefit). Second, it is of limited benefit as a post-load as MDMA has been shown to knock out the enzyme tryptophan hydroxylase which converts l-tryptophan to 5htp. (there has been discussion about this in E Discussion, and I think in this forum too - do a search for more). Third, the conversion of l-tryptophan to serotonin is much slower than 5HTP to serotonin, possible up to about 10 - 12 hours, compared to about 1 for 5HTP.
 
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