Benzos Jewelry balance (scale) for pill cutting

[speedballs_over]

Quick note here - breaking pills using a jewlery balance* is not a great idea.

Why - tablets are not 100% evenly mixed and when you get down to crumbs you may get more/less of the active compound intend.

?s reply please. I'll monitor thread.

I'm a former pharmaceutical formulation scientist. This is my specialty.

*FYI: balances are small weights, scales for large weights.

Edit: the powder that goes into a pill press is indeed homogenous, after compression it often is not, esp., with small dose tablets.

The effect of uneven mixing is often even more true with many capsulated meds as the ingredients may sperate during transit (Vyvanse is great example - breaking those open will reveal what I'm getting at. But don't take Vyvanse outside the capsule (per manf warning)).

 

[Keif' Richards]

I have a small issue with the material that you're working with here speedballs. It's common knowledge that for a given pill, the way in which it is formulated and pressed leaves very little room for a non-homogenous mixture. You mention that the "crumbs" or, small pieces of a given pill will somehow be weaker than the rest of the mass. I'm not remotely trying to belittle you here, but there's really no reason why small crumbs would be any more or less potent than the rest of the mass. You're starting, as I mentioned, from a homogenous mass.

I'm gonna sound like an asshole, but I'm getting a little tired of this stuff and it seems to be turning into a trend. I'm not saying this is a 100% true phenomenon, but it seems that literally every time somebody opens up their opinion with an Ethos-style argument (I'm a doctor/I'm a lawyer/I'm a scientist etc.) the information has tended to be dubious or flat out incorrect. I'm sorry dude, but you say that you're a "pharmaceutical formulation scientist", but then you follow that up with what is essentially misinformation/urban legend that active ingredients in a pill are somehow clustered in pockets as opposed to being homogenous. It's just now how it is dude and any true, clinical pharmacist would not present arguments of such a dubious nature as fact.

Seriously, it's like, every time somebody says they're important/a somebody or, let's just be frank "better than you", they end up not having the most basic understanding of what they're talking about. I really don't understand why people do this. Nobody is better than anybody here and we don't need to know your credentials in order to have discourse with you. The facts are the facts and that's how we operate; not upon conjecture or dubious and/or false beliefs and opinions.

A clinical pharmacist would not make a statement about a given subject like this without actually testing the material to determine the veracity of their statement.

 

[RDP89]

How would pressing a homogenous mixture into a tablet suddenly make it no longer homogenous?

 

[Keif' Richards]

How would pressing a homogenous mixture into a tablet suddenly make it no longer homogenous?

Ah, the gift of concise speech. That's exactly my point as well.

 

[d1nach]

Why would you need to crush pharms then use a pill press for personal use?

 

[speedballs_over]

No offense taken. I know what I'm writing about, and know I'm not blowing smoke.

I've tested product myself and reviewed others data regarding the issue of homogenous formulations undergoing migration of particles during compression.

What causes it? In one case, static charge deposition of l-thyroxine onto the blender blades.

Homogenous mixtures going into pill presses are often coming out of a discharge vessel with a spinning blade in it. We (my analytical team) found tablets with 200% of label claim in a few tablets of l-throxine. This was confirmed with additional testing of the blend, everything the blend touched and several lots of finished product.

That is one example of what I came across while performing tablet development and during post-aNDA production QA testing.

l-thyroxine as formulated by my company is one case of a homogenous mixture being affected by the tablet pressing process. The "innovator" had the same issues. We both had to recall product. "Innovator" is in quotes because the compound was "grandfathered" in the law that created the innovator/generic system of drug development and marketing we have in the US today.

I have a few more, maybe a dozen examples.

Testing of the blended product pre-compression and post production are common tests used to detect the effect compression has on homogeneity. It can, but not always, affects tablet homogeneity.

I'm an idiot and don't know a fucking thing, right?

Anyone above - have you worked in an analytical laboratory for a dozen years developing new formulations? Then go ahead and tell me you've never seen this phenomena. If so you weren't looking and your analytical methods were shit.

I wrote the above with HR in mind not to show off or any bullshit.

There are all sorts of professionals and specialists who post and read here. I don't whine about the loads of crap pseudo-pharmacology I read here nearly daily.

What was the point of attacking my writing, esp., without any experience in a lab working on formulation development?

Am I not permitted to qualify my post with what my experience has been with said subject?

Fuck it. Try to help out and get bullshit from amature pharmacologists.

What qualifies anyone here to tell me the results of testing by two companies or more were incorrect. The FDA was directly involved in some cases, I could possibly dig up some data on this. If I have the time and energy to redact the docs to adhere to my non-disclosure agreement and post it, I will.

I apologize for any misspelling or bad grammar, I don't have my reading glasses on and can't find them at the moment.

 

[speedballs_over]

Start here: this occurs on a scale greater than micron level, the first abstract below examines micron level non-homogeneity, read each link and you'll start to get it.

On a micron or sub-micron scale, solid multi-component samples such as blends for tablets or capsules, compressed tablets or cast films typically exhibit non-homogeneous distribution of components. This results in regions that are disproportionately more concentrated in individual components, which can have a major impact on drug product stability, release rate, and other physical properties.

https://www.ssci-inc.com/services/drug-product-and-delivery/mapping-and-imaging-studies/

Tell me I'm wrong again.

Check this out, sorry you'll have to read a bit:

https://ukm.pure.elsevier.com/en/pu...-bonding-in-compacts-a-comparison-of-diametra

Here's a study and more info about new a methodology for testing tablet homogeneity:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...blets_using_near_infrared_reflectance_imaging

If the testing weren't necessary people wouldn't be developing ever better methods of detecting the phenomena.

The case in the study may be for intentional non-homogeneity, not certain. Don't need to read the entire article to re-learn what I already know.

My writing may not be the best, I'm not a professional writer.

 

[Mighty-oak]

Very interesting. I have digital jewelery scales. A 10mg Diazepam (Valium) tablet weighs 0.0200g. So I was to cut some off making the tablet weigh 0.0180g would that be exactly 9mg or would it not be that exact dose doing it this way? I know some of the illegal drugs back in the 90's had what was known as 'hot spots' so part of the tablet would contain the main ingredient and the rest would be fillers and binders.

 

[d1nach]

Isnt 0.02000 grams equal to 0.02 or 20 mg.

2.0g=2000mg
0.2g=200 mg
0.02g=20 mg

Do you mean 200 mg

 

[tacodude]

This all sounds like a scare tactic to get people to get afraid of breaking their pill into proper doses even if they are too big. I don't know who the OP is, but they are a little off

 

[BurritoJimmy]

Sounds like a troll to me. Best not to listen to any advice from him.

 

[Mighty-oak]

Isnt 0.02000 grams equal to 0.02 or 20 mg.

2.0g=2000mg
0.2g=200 mg
0.02g=20 mg

Do you mean 200 mg

Hi!

10mg Diazepam by Actavis weighs 0.02000g, so 5mg (half a tablet) would = 0.01000g and 2.5mg would = 0.00500g.

 

[BeachBum4u]

Personally I come to BL to learn a few things here and there on topics which are of interest to me. Occasionally I will post a reply on a question where I may have some experience and may be able to assist a fellow BL'er. That's just me, don't know how others feel but I suspect they probably feel similarly.

Why can't folks just take away from posts the information that applies to them and let the rest "go". There serves no constructive purpose to be so ready to pounce on someone's post if you take issue with the content or wording. If its of use to you and your situation in life, excellent! If not, move on to another post that may fit your bill. No need to take the time to criticize. Most folks come here to honestly get answers to questions they may have or provide help if they are able. I really think 99% of BL'ers come here not to "blow smoke up anyone's ass". The majority are very sincere about what they read and write and deserve a little human respect for the time they spend here, especially if they're trying to help a fellow BL'er.

Sorry for the lengthy post and possible rant. This just really struck me the wrong way tonight. Much love all!

 

[Jabberwocky]

Personally I come to BL to learn a few things here and there on topics which are of interest to me. Occasionally I will post a reply on a question where I may have some experience and may be able to assist a fellow BL'er. That's just me, don't know how others feel but I suspect they probably feel similarly.

Why can't folks just take away from posts the information that applies to them and let the rest "go". There serves no constructive purpose to be so ready to pounce on someone's post if you take issue with the content or wording. If its of use to you and your situation in life, excellent! If not, move on to another post that may fit your bill. No need to take the time to criticize. Most folks come here to honestly get answers to questions they may have or provide help if they are able. I really think 99% of BL'ers come here not to "blow smoke up anyone's ass". The majority are very sincere about what they read and write and deserve a little human respect for the time they spend here, especially if they're trying to help a fellow BL'er.

Sorry for the lengthy post and possible rant. This just really struck me the wrong way tonight. Much love all!

Who are you responding to/referencing in your post?

This all sounds like a scare tactic to get people to get afraid of breaking their pill into proper doses even if they are too big. I don't know who the OP is, but they are a little off

Would you mind elaborating a bit about this?

Sounds like a troll to me. Best not to listen to any advice from him.

What are you talking about? Why do you advice no one listen to them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Start here: this occurs on a scale greater than micron level, the first abstract below examines micron level non-homogeneity, read each link and you'll start to get it.

On a micron or sub-micron scale, solid multi-component samples such as blends for tablets or capsules, compressed tablets or cast films typically exhibit non-homogeneous distribution of components. This results in regions that are disproportionately more concentrated in individual components, which can have a major impact on drug product stability, release rate, and other physical properties.

https://www.ssci-inc.com/services/drug-product-and-delivery/mapping-and-imaging-studies/

Tell me I'm wrong again.

Check this out, sorry you'll have to read a bit:

https://ukm.pure.elsevier.com/en/pu...-bonding-in-compacts-a-comparison-of-diametra

Here's a study and more info about new a methodology for testing tablet homogeneity:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...blets_using_near_infrared_reflectance_imaging

If the testing weren't necessary people wouldn't be developing ever better methods of detecting the phenomena.

The case in the study may be for intentional non-homogeneity, not certain. Don't need to read the entire article to re-learn what I already know.

My writing may not be the best, I'm not a professional writer.

Interesting read, thank you.

 

[tacodude]

Sounds like a troll to me. Best not to listen to any advice from him.

I never said that. What he's saying is probably true, but I think they are making way big a deal out of it. It's not likely that you'll j get an ultra potent pill and if you do it's unlikely you'll have more than one