Harm Reduction Jeff or Cat (methcathinone) Warning

[Hammilton]

I know we have users from Eastern Europe here who would be familiar with this, and I was hoping to contact some of them.

There is a trend to cook ephedrine or pseudoephedrine with potassium permanganate and vineager (with or without aspirin, I'm not sure why but aspirin is often listed as part of the process), shoot and get high.

The process produces methcathinone in situ, but it's incredibly dangerous because you're injecting MnO2 as well.

Is there anyone here who has experience doing this and has had the consequences? In fairly short order users will experience an irreversible Parkinsonsonian-type syndrome that will gradually get worse. very little can be done at that point.

If you or anyone you know have done this, please either post here or PM me, I'm trying to find someone else who has been exposed to high levels of manganese. I was exposed via another route, but the effects are probably the same.

Thanks,

Hammilton

 

[orgone]

this sounds horrible, have your cognitive effects been greatly effected?

 

[Hammilton]

I don't think so. I think I get angrier easy and I'm harder to be around, but I was never known for being easy to get along with, I suppose.

It's hard to judge your own intelligence level, but I know that I rarely feel like I'm not smarter than everyone around me, which may say more about me than my actual intelligence. I think my writing level is still sufficiently advanced that I'm probably judging well.

However, according to what I've read, the poisoning will probably continue to worsen for the next decade or longer, far beyond the cessation of contact with manganese. That's why I was hoping to find people on here who had been exposed as well and see what their experience has been.

 

[sekio]

isn't MnO2 insoluble in water, like most metal oxides? I was under the impression that it was e.g. soluble Mn(II)OAc that caused the actual toxicity.

Mn poisoning associated with methcathinone abuse is fairly well established in the literature, but I've always seen cases that are associated with chronic (>2 yrs) methcathinone abuse, never acute usage. "Manganism" is fairly distinct - presenting with gait and speech disturbances. If you have a normal gait and speech I would not be terribly concerned... (as long as Mn intake is minimised)

I think in theory chelation therapy could be of use to reduce blood Mn concentrations to acceptable levels. Whether or not that would reverse damage is another thing entirely. Undoubtedly the standard regime of vitamins and antioxidants would not prove harmful either.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19757228
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa072488

 

[Hammilton]

Gait is affected, speech is not, I don't think. Many people have commented on the changes in my gait, esp. my wife.

The problem isn't what's circulating in the blood after so long, it's what's stored in the brain. There aren't many chelators that get into the brain.

If you read, there are definitely cases where effects are seen within just a few weeks, though. I was exposed over about two years personally, but for cat users, ingesting such large amounts, seeing damage so quick is not unheard of.