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Opioids Is there a way to get some of the euphoria back from methadone while on MMT?

Bomb319

Bomb319

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 26, 2011
Messages
583
Location
Kelowna, B.C.
I'm not asking this so I can go get high and screw my treatment; rather I find my ability to abstain from using other opiates is MUCH greater when I feel even a small glow and mellowing effect that I remember so well. I've been on maintenance for over 6 months now, and am on a high dose (190 mg). I'm finding that now, of course, upping my dose even by 15 mg does not increase euphoria anymore. I have been steadily increasing my dose NOT because I was chasing the high it produces, but because I am a "fast metabolizer" and find that very often by morning, I'm yawning and feeling lethargic, and sometimes even having sneezing fits, feeling nauseated and getting some chills along with teary eyes.

Of course it's nowhere near as bad as outright cold turkey withdrawal, but the longer I stay on MMT, the less I find I can deal with even the prospect of approaching withdrawal. So I'd like to feel a buzz again because I always thought that methadone was very euphoric, even rivaling heroin in how it affects me. If I can look forward to my doses again, I know I will lose whatever interest I still have remaining to use other opiates. Would bearing a few days of pain from withdrawal be enough to do this, or is this actually quite stupid and dangerous (assuming enough time has passed for my tolerance to drop enough for my dose to turn lethal)? Otherwise, are there any other ways to bring it back?

I've tried all the potentiators, including cat's claw (which actually seemed to DECREASE euphoria for me) and I regularly take a high dose of diphenhydramine nightly. Interestingly, I can often discern a returning methadone buzz much later in the day after taking the diphenhydramine. Does anyone know if this drug causes increased metabolism of methadone, since that would explain the returning buzz as well as the relatively rapid return to baseline by morning. Oh yeah, I've also been taking Zopiclone (a GABA agonist) 7.5 mg pill along with the methadone dose daily. In fact, I'm pretty sure I can date my subjective and nearly complete lack of methadone euphoria from the time I started combining it with the Zopiclone. Could that be contributing to the problem, and would it reverse if I discontinued this drug?

Any and all advice and experiences would be GREATLY appreciated!! Thank you in advance :)
 
Methadone's supposed to keep you at a baseline, not get you high. The high usually is situationally influenced. Set and setting, y'know. If you take a bunch of 'done and go hang out with a bunch of squares and downers, you'll probably feel shitty. You can't expect the party to come to you, you've gotta go find the party ;)

Find a dose that keeps you from withdrawals, and then go do something physical - or play a video game, watch a movie, hit the clubs - something to kick those reward circuits in.
 
Yeah, I certainly realize that maintenance is always touted as providing no euphoria, but returning you to "normal". For me, at least part of the problem lies in the fact that to some degree, I don't want to completely give up the euphoria it gives me, despite actively wanting to quit. That may sound paradoxical, but the reason MMT has been so successful in turning my life around is that I enjoyed the feeling it gave me and looked forward to each dose almost as much as I would procuring heroin. It was enough to keep me happy, kill my cravings and all the while enable me to live my life again.

I realize that because of this, many people would consider me to either not truly want to quit, or else doing it for the wrong reasons. However when I look at the big picture, the end result is the same; I went on methadone to stop using illegal drugs and turn my life around, and that's exactly what has happened. Given that conclusion, it seems unimportant what means I use to achieve the same desirable end. So to help maintain my progress, seeking some euphoria from MMT is as helpful a measure to keep me clean as any other.
 
I am am aware that my attitude toward treatment deviates from the traditional paradigm of MMT to the point of being considered unorthodox, but in my mind it's truly just an effective means to the same end. I feel that at least on some level, I will crave opiates one way or another for the rest of my life. I admit that I am not sure if I'm being defeatist and lazy or simply rational and realistic, but all I know is that so far, this method has done for me what nothing else in the world ever could and I am therefore immensely thankful for it and eagerly seeking any means of maintaining it.
 
At 190mg a day, euphoria will be impossible to achieve. And no matter how much you increase your dose, you will gain tolerance to it.

I understand where you're coming from, but taking such a massive dose of methadone, and then expecting to easily obtain any major euphoria is, well, unrealistic, to say the least.

I can tell you how to double the half-life, maximize BA etc, but you'd be working backwards. The only option to OCCASIONALY catch a euphoric buzz is to reduce your tolerance. But MMT isn't made to have you feel amazing every day, but normal. I was an MMT patient, on a much lower dose, and I know you can still feel your dose every day. You can't take a very large dose of such a powerful drug like methadone(whether it's 90mg or 190mg) and think it isn't effecting you; that's the point.

Like most people, you have allowed yourself to become dependent on a dose which is FAR more than you ever needed. That's ok; but you must now live with that decision.

If your having that much of a problem, it is psychological and you need to change your state of mind. Sekio has given you great advice(he usually does) which is you have to find the party, the excitement. And environment is important; taking a double dose in a stressful situation fucking sucks, believe me. People forget this, but high doses of opioids(and especially methadone) actually make your nerves worse. You'll be a sweating, stressed out nauseated wreck.

Find a peaceful sitaution(or WTF ever floats your boat) and try to live for the moment, enjoy the randomness of life. I am the first person to say drugs are my everything, but in the end even I wouldn't be happy in a jail cell with all the dope in the world.

But with your tolerance, pharmacological intervention just isn't practical(well. In regards to taking more opioids/potentiators). At such a dose, moderately increasing your methadone won't really help. Sorry and hope you find some way to enjoy life, fully again.
 
I don't understand of course your gonna feel like yawning and a bit sick before dosing that's the way it is for most that's when you dose again. Of it truly is bad and you are a fast metaboliser then switch to split dosing so you dose every 12 hours instead of 24 hours its needed for people who metabolise substances quickly like me I have my doses split up so I dose at 9am then 3pm then my bedtime dose I take around 8 or 9pm and since doing this I've only beeded a fraction of what I took once a day and it gets me a good buzz every time it kicks in.
 
Oh yea and less is more with these types of drugs where the half life is so long doses carry over into the following day.
 
I would suggest trying out NMDA antagonists as a means of at least stabilizing the build up of tolerance and start from there. I don't think you should do a dose increase, but rather some forms of potentiation that the antagonist can keep at the same effect level. Look up the NMDA antagonist thread on BL and you'll find some great info there.

I do completely understand where you're coming from though, i feel the same way with my bupe. However, your point of view is only true up to a point, and you can't just keep increasing your dose so you can keep relying on drugs for the rest of your life. To maintain at a dose that gives you a slight buzz would be much more reasonable, and even then that should only really happen if you're a born-to-die lifelong junk fiend who's been clean for like 2 days max when he was using and has been using for 30 years.

I see where you're coming from and i think your argument does hold some truth to it, but don't take it too seriously and (as others have suggested) find other means of achieving buzz's.

-Wish you the best
 
I think there are some decent suggestions here. I agree completely that upping your dose isn't going to get you anything... Quite a while ago (consider the proportions).

I thought I was a "fast metabolizer" too (not saying you arent) back when I was "potentiating" and combining with other drugs to chase the high. That was actually during a previous enrollment. This time I use no other drugs whatsoever (besides the prescribed clonazepam for my panic disorder, which I am completely tolerant and space as far away from my dosing as possible). This time I don't even smoke cannabis, and my dose lasts without any sickness at all.

I even still feel good from it after months, but as others have brilliantly mentioned - I learned to do it "situationally". For starters, I do something physical, work or enjoyment first thing, BEFORE I dose. That seems to get my naturals going a bit. After I dose, good "situational" potentiators are meditation or taking a nap. It's my version of "doing something fun" (I'm old and have a family - playing with my kids is a good potentiator too;). A good nap though - after work (I work super early and have forced myself to dose after work) is the best and is my little way of getting off. I even still get those opiate dreams and wake up feeling nice, warm, and even a little itchy. I would definitely call it a mild euphoria.

Let's be real here - this is no slam and nod lifestyle I'm living, but we all know that shit ain't sustainable... And hell - I'm pretty happy on MMT this time around - now that I'm not combining with everything under the sun/moon trying to pull a dope high out of my methadone.

115 mg - in case anyone wondered. M/165 lb

Ps: at this point, you'd probably need to get off the z-drug and withdrawal from your methadone a bit by either going down, then back up some or just detoxing adS many days as you can. You don't have to worry about resetting your tolerance and OD- ING like with H because the clinic will restart you way before that would actually even happen (at mine it's a week I think, I did 8days once and they started me back at 30. It still was very relieving after cting 130). I'd personally go the detox route, but I've got a "go bag" with every comfort med I could ever wish for.

Good luck.
 
The key for me was being put on the right anti-depressant. By having a medication satisfy your neurotransmitter imbalance you can stop associating 'mental' well being from 'physical' well being, you can seek separate yet fulfilling stability. I never associated the personality 'enhancement' or emotional regulation with anything other than opiates. I can tell you that when I detoxed after my first spinal fusion, I was put on an anti-depressant ahead of time. It was odd at first, feeling mentally stable and physically sick to my stomach.

Well I've had several more operations and always sort of teeter between nearly off opiates to back on them fully yet do not feel the mood swings and emotional fragility that comes with physical withdrawal. I've only taken methadone for PM, and at most took 20mg every 8 hours, so hearing that you've been put on 190mg!!! That is a Pandora's box that personally I would look at like an anchor: you are at most treading water with where you are physiologically.

I never felt depressed or in need of medication while I was using (pre-surgeries), but like I said I had access to psychiatric care pre-detox that made me realize there are better, more stable ways of juicing up those neurotransmitters.
 
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