Cycle Advice Is PCT necessary if using TRT levels of testosterone?

JohnBoy2000

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I ask only cause I've read some endocrinologists advocate for TRT in men as they get older.

I believe caborgoline is used as PCT in some cycles, which I have a negative response to.

Even with testosterone doses being used such to restore natural levels, would one still get reduction in natural testosterone production and other side effects used when PCT is not used?
 
I would say likely not. Pct isn't really necessary for most people. I believe it's talked about in one of the stickies
 
I also began to question this as, having just turned 36 I seem to be noticing a reduction in conventional levels of sex drive.

I haven't had my testosterone blood work checked in a while but I understand this can happen when it naturally reduces with age.
 
Yeah, you need PCT.
When you put hormones into your body your body shuts down natural production.
It doesn't matter if you're on TRT or a 1 gram or above mega bodybuilding cycle.

PCT helps with the recovery of your natural testosterone production. When those gears grind to a halt and you're running on what you inject into yourself, you're leaving recovery up to hoping you bounce back.
It depends how old you've been on mainly. If you've been blasting all year (or longer) on whatever dose, small or high, your recovery without PCT will be significantly delayed. You might not feel normal for several months, maybe even a year or so. I can remember when I came off without PCT and it took me over a year to feel normal again. I was on for a good year or two though and at that moment in my life I wasn't on light doses. To eliminate any doubt as to whether that was random or not I came off gear 10 months ago but this time with PCT and I didn't need to bounce back because the transition from being on gear to naturally producing was virtually flawless.

It also depends on what you mean by PCT. There's different takes on what is PCT.
Traditionally it's Nolvadex and Clomid but both are controversial and have their side effects, Clomid more than Nolvadex. Some say you don't need one or the other. Some say you need both. Others say you also need other compounds thrown in there too. My last PCT also utilised tadalafil as well as masterolone. I thought it might have been overkill but the tadalafil gave me rock hard boners and I felt vital whereas the masterolone while effectively a steroid (seems counterproductive) helped with the shutdown so it was like I hadn't shutdown at all while not elevating my test levels again beyond a normal physiological level. I also barely lost any of my gains. Whatever works for you.

Either way I think the jury is out. Yes, you ALWAYS need PCT. When you're fucking with your hormones in whatever context, you need a safety net.
And if you're not a young buck anymore I think every cycle you do, especially if those are long even if they are light doses, pushes you that little bit further out to sea so you gotta paddle further to get back.
But hey, if you're on TRT and you're an older guy, the worry about coming off is unsubstantiated to some degree because you're probably genuinely benefiting from having TRT in the first place having receding testosterone levels as it is. So why throw a spanner in the works and come off if it's working for you? Then again, I know what it feels like to be on gear for a long time. I start to feel numb and emotionally detached, even depressed sometimes. That's why I came off my last cycle.
 
I ask only cause I've read some endocrinologists advocate for TRT in men as they get older.

I believe caborgoline is used as PCT in some cycles, which I have a negative response to.

Even with testosterone doses being used such to restore natural levels, would one still get reduction in natural testosterone production and other side effects used when PCT is not used?

TRT is hormone replacement therapy, you don'y apply PCT as you don't come off..
As for Cabergoline, its a D2 agonist, you shouldn't be interfering with your dopaminergic system..

PCT has been discussed here many times, the consensus is most people don't need it as you should recover just fine without it..
Also discussed has been protecting the testes ON-CYCLE before damage is done via reactive oxygen species to leydig and sertoli cells.
Once damage is done through excessive hormone use, no amount of PCT can fix dead or damages cells in the testes..

Remember, back in the day when everyone cycled, PCT drugs were a nice earner for your supplier whilst you were off..
 
Meant to ask also, is there ever any kind of psycho-active effects from taking testosterone?

As in, even if I dosed thyroid hormone by example, I notice a mild "buzz" psycho active effect within about 1 hour of dosing.

I understand on higher doses of T some users can experience increased aggression.

But what I'm asking is, is there, following dosing/injecting etc., any kind of distinct affect or alteration in ones "headspace", in any way?
Feel more stimulated, light headed, tuned-up, etc.??
 
Meant to ask also, is there ever any kind of psycho-active effects from taking testosterone?

As in, even if I dosed thyroid hormone by example, I notice a mild "buzz" psycho active effect within about 1 hour of dosing.

I understand on higher doses of T some users can experience increased aggression.

But what I'm asking is, is there, following dosing/injecting etc., any kind of distinct affect or alteration in ones "headspace", in any way?
Feel more stimulated, light headed, tuned-up, etc.??
norAll of the above, and more. That's one of the biggest attractions for lots of recreational users but it depends entirely on your psychological makeup. For some people that's why they take it, and abuse it, because they get a massive buzz from having that much test flowing through their body. You can feel on top of the world and like nobody can touch you. Invincibility can kick in, as can grandiosity (if you are prone to those narcissistic traits). Your ego widens. It can give you an edge mentally that is hard to replace with any other drug. Confidence, aggression, resilience, dominance, positivity, vitality. It's the dirty little "secret" around steroid use and something I notice a lot of veterans don't like to bring up easily.

Its also why they are addictive. The addiction is psychological after all, and for good reason. When you are a certain somebody with certain personality traits and made in a certain way who is drawn to addicting to things that seem to numb parts of yourself you might not be happy about while enlarging parts you struggle to acknowledge, steroids are a very good ally. Steroids can give you the impression you're somebody different to the person you are off the gear. And you are different, both psychologically and biologically and so those assumptions are right.

Question is, what is different and why? And what is it you find different that you're potentially addicting yourself too? In most cases its always an escape as with any other drug. The drug provides an escape window from normality into a world that feels better. You're a "bigger" man, both psychologically and physically and that's alluring to any man with an inch of competitiveness and alpha male characteristics about him. What they can do is turn that alpha male thing from whatever it was before to x10, x50, x100 times

Where you go from there though is down to you. And that's where the problems can start. Because, how do you come down from such a high where you are a man you feel you can't be off the gear? How do you cope knowing there is a state you can reach that you can only reach injecting hormones into your body and without those hormones you're just an average man? Or maybe (as you perceive anyway) less than average? And that's where they trap you because now its no longer about the gains in the gym or even the wicked sex life, the recovery or whatever. Now its just about maintaining the high so you don't crash and return to being normal and witnessing your ego diminish and your artificially imposed king gorilla complex deflate.

Again, depends on your makeup. And that will depend a lot on your life history, experiences and trajectory, lifestyle choices and how that's made you into you today. Some will fall off the edge (albeit secretly as like I said, the side effects of steroids psychologically are a taboo topic. Most men who talk about them may talk about the physical side effects but there's a denial of why they themselves need to keep taking them) and stay on a cycle for months or even years and never really come off properly. And some will recognize the impact they have, both positively and negatively, and be able to remain relatively grounded.

The one thing that gets me is how and why people don't recognize that steroids are a drug like any other. People associate injecting things with heroin and then there's the stigma with that, but people don't draw parallels with steroids. In reality, its the same thing with heroin as it is with steroids. I speak with coming up to 10 years experience with them. Sure, you're not doing it the same way, its not the same molecular compound nor the same physiological effects and culturally they are worlds apart. Still though, if you really dug deep and asked why a steroid user continues to inject, the answer would be not that dissimilar to any other drug user who injects drugs into their body.
 
Meant to ask also, is there ever any kind of psycho-active effects from taking testosterone?

As in, even if I dosed thyroid hormone by example, I notice a mild "buzz" psycho active effect within about 1 hour of dosing.

I understand on higher doses of T some users can experience increased aggression.

But what I'm asking is, is there, following dosing/injecting etc., any kind of distinct affect or alteration in ones "headspace", in any way?
Feel more stimulated, light headed, tuned-up, etc.??

There are multiple possibilities due to individual genetic profile. Such as Estrogen expression, Androgen receptor binding, Glucuronidation of androgens or metabolites, Androgen catabolism, Enzymatic DHT, Estradiol, and Testosterone conversion, CYP17A1 expression and hormone dominance, Substrate clearance, etc..

So, there is no one fits all answer due to individual genetics.

There are optimal benefits of adequate levels of estrogen on mood via modulation of tryptophan hydroxylase, the enzyme responsible for serotonin synthesis.

Regards aggression, its generally excepted if you present with aggressive tendencies normally these could be enhanced with testosterones
There is new work looking at dysfunction serotonin transporter, decreased serotonin secretion and re-uptake via 5HTTLPR gene expression, adding to aggressive tendencies..

As strength and size increase that can be associated with mood elevation.. I remember a distinct elevation as a new cycle was started back in the day..

Speaking as an old bastard, it personally feels like living in the body and mind of a younger person, but with wrinkles..
 
There's evidence showing testosterone has effects on the mu-opioid receptors. What that could ultimately mean, I'm not sure as I haven't looked into it for a while. We do notice people seem to exhibit less cravings for opioids when placed on testosterone
 
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