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Is it better to be led astray from the light, or to have never found it at all?

arrall

arrall

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I recently found the following passages from the Bible - 2 Peter 2:20-22 (In NKJV version to be more straightforward and understandable)

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
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Do you agree or disagree that it is better to have never found the light than to find it and then go astray from it? Why so?

Do you think that the path of straying from enlightenment in favour of the opposite direction is one that is generally a choice to follow? Why?
 
Always better to see/know the truth. Even if you lose it, at least you know what you need to get back to and aren’t groping in the dark.
 
well this depends (please remember I am not a believer or a disbeliever)

one could say not to know in the first place they have not committed sin from straying.

one could also say that with prior knowledge there actions are done with full intent rather than naivety.

one could also say you dont miss what you dont know.

but as cdin very appropriately stated at least you know what is if you have been there and know were to go back to.

depends really on how far you strayed.

I think a little miss direction in the way of not being sure and not believing anymore could be seen as part of the process of self development and if one goes back to the "light" then

they are all the more richer for it and have truly found belief.

but if one leaves the "light" and then does horrific things saying that its all a lie then the pre knowledge could be seen as being worse than none at all as they should have known better.


very much like a courts ideas of motive would be my thoughts on the matter.
 
I think that truth is what makes us humans. We all have different truth, but it leads us in our lives. So all we need to know the truth
 
I dont think there is a truth to be honest just an experience.

we still have not seen an electron and all we can do is poke at things in the dark with sticks waiting for them to squeal.

if it makes a noise it must be real then we poke it again in another way.

we make a map but as happened many times in the days of tall ships the maps can be wrong as they could only see things from one perspective.

there truth was flawed and therefor not truth at all.

can we say different of anything today ?
 
lonelyDude said:
I dont think there is a truth to be honest just an experience.

we still have not seen an electron and all we can do is poke at things in the dark with sticks waiting for them to squeal.

if it makes a noise it must be real then we poke it again in another way.

we make a map but as happened many times in the days of tall ships the maps can be wrong as they could only see things from one perspective.

there truth was flawed and therefor not truth at all.

can we say different of anything today ?
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I love science, but there is an aspect of existence (the spiritual) that it cannot quite contain.

To quote Alexander Shulgin, “In which part of the human body is the soul located?”
 
it could be in the dark matter who knows.

it might not even exist and its all our ego's being led by thousands of years of control systems in play.

who really knows hence the idea of belief.

personally the biggest sin I have ever committed and will never do again is to steal someones faith.

it fucked them up big time as they lost there moral compass.

I still feel ashamed of it.
 
having learnt chi and been healed by it when I did not believe.

having eaten one shroom and the rest sing to me (like every season its how I find them)

I can say I believe there is far more to us than we know but what how and why ill leave that to the others to decide.

im happy to just come for the ride with you guys and let the philosophers debate what deep thought is going to do.

after all what is going to be is going to be and there is nothing I can do about it.
 
One's life is filled with days of light and days of darkness, like the pattern on a chessboard.
We cannot know light without darkness, nor darkness without light.
Our path in life goes up and down like the undulating hills as one approaches a mountain.
 
If you find the light, and are led astray, I think it's easier to be led back towards the light as you have experienced it and know it to be better than the dark.

I don't agree with that Bible quote, since I think the premise is that if you find the light (Jesus), and are led astray (Satan), this means that the church has somehow failed to give you redemption, or that Satan's powers worked over the Bible.

But that's just my knee jerk interpretation.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
I don't agree with that Bible quote, since I think the premise is that if you find the light (Jesus), and are led astray (Satan), this means that the church has somehow failed to give you redemption, or that Satan's powers worked over the Bible.
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It seems like the Church is narcissistically blaming any hypothetical cases of its own failings on those it fails to convert to its cause.

Casting the outgroup as a dog returning to its own vomit and all that.
 
Which Church? It's in all Christian Bibles. So all of them I recon.

It's also an Epistle not an Old Testament or Gospel Book, so it's not "binding" like the others. Epistle is Greek for letter. So this is Peter's letter as a response to questions in the early Christian times and has been regarded more of his personal opinion. It is certainly not in alignment with what Jesus taught and acted.

Don't know what to say about Peter sometimes. The Apostles were not infallible, nor should they be held as such. At least that''s what I remember from school at least 60 years ago. So take it with a grain of salt. ;)
 
Cheshire_Kat said:
Which Church? It's in all Christian Bibles. So all of them I recon.

It's also an Epistle not an Old Testament or Gospel Book, so it's not "binding" like the others. Epistle is Greek for letter. So this is Peter's letter as a response to questions in the early Christian times and has been regarded more of his personal opinion. It is certainly not in alignment with what Jesus taught and acted.

Don't know what to say about Peter sometimes. The Apostles were not infallible, nor should they be held as such. At least that''s what I remember from school at least 60 years ago. So take it with a grain of salt. ;)
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Thank you for the crash course in Christianity.
I personally find the lost books (e.g. Book of Eve) more interesting than anything, probably because it has been over a millennium since anyone had the privilege of reading them.
 
you got to love the scene when there at the dole office and they ask the murderer if he had murdered today or tried to and then they give him his payment.

and then the mega joint and it knocking all the romans off there feet.

or how can I forget Biggest dickest what a classic.
 
arrall said:
I recently found the following passages from the Bible - 2 Peter 2:20-22 (In NKJV version to be more straightforward and understandable)



Do you agree or disagree that it is better to have never found the light than to find it and then go astray from it? Why so?

Do you think that the path of straying from enlightenment in favour of the opposite direction is one that is generally a choice to follow? Why?
Click to expand...
At times it seems that it would be better to not have the knowledge and live in ignorance because it is true that it is detrimental to possess the knowledge but then choose to reject it. It is the greatest sin of all and it is what leads to true damnation. However I don’t think we have a choice in whether or not we recieve the knowledge or not. Our very nature pushes us towards that realization because we are naturally a curious people and we naturally want to learn more about the world and about ourselves and we want to expand. So it is inevitable that we will all eventually have the light revealed to us. It is those who reject it that will be condemned and it is those who accept it that will enter the kingdom of heaven. There is no option of whether or not you can live in ignorance forever and be happy as a result of that. Maybe in a singular life yes. But I don’t think people fully realize the reality of reincarnation and how much we are accelerating towards that point of the light entering the collective awareness. It will be inevitable and it will be devastating to those who reject it. That is the true hell and damnation that Christian’s talk about.

Because we would be rejecting our very nature and we would be giving in to resistance and determinism and inauthentic decision making basically. Our fundamental nature is to expand and to grow. That is gods nature that he imparted unto us.
 
@arrall This is a fantastic thread. For reasons you will understand I wish i could explain my thoughts but the best I can say is the entered apprentice (1°) is basically all to do with this.

Any new candidate no matter who they are 'comes' into the fraternity from darkness seeking light. Light being a better man. That's why you will be blindfolded during initiation. I can't say anything else unfortunately.

"I Travel to the east"



\ G /
 
My opinion:
If one "sees the light" and turns from it that knowledge will be used for nefarious purposes.
So, yeah, it would be best if they never knew/saw the "light".
 
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