Is heroin really that difficult to get off?

[Captain.Heroin]

Anyway no-one has the right to govern what you do to your own body other than you. It is disgusting that drugs are illegal.

If drugs were legal, we could hold the manufacturers to higher standards, require them to provide rehabilitation programs for people trying to get clean, etc.

The way things are now, the burden to get people off drugs falls on health insurance companies, and the state - which just burdens us all - as health insurance premiums must cost more; or the insurance companies then refuse to cover treatment for addiction. Furthermore, we all pay higher taxes - and we all know how inefficient the government is with every last thing they touch.

I could go on and on about this but I won't.

 

[toronto guy]

I started taking Lorazopam in Feb and now am trying deperately to detox. My heart is racing and my face is flushed and there is no way I can fall asleep. Has anyone tried to end their dependency on these nasty benzo's?

 

[DexterMeth]

I've known plenty of addicts so I know how severe cold turkey withdrawals from heavy use are but it seems quite obvious that it is not the addiction itself that makes it impossible for them to get off it, its the lifestyle and the way things are set up.

I cut off all ties with almost everyone.

Almost none of the people in that life know where I live now. Exercise is my new addiction. I'd rather exercise than go to NA, but that' just me.

-Indeed, it's the pattern and lifestyle for sure. Quitting heroin itself was a lot easier than leaving the life.
--
Maybe I'll start selling cars instead of dope.

 

[junkieman412]

I started taking Lorazopam in Feb and now am trying deperately to detox. My heart is racing and my face is flushed and there is no way I can fall asleep. Has anyone tried to end their dependency on these nasty benzo's?

Yes. i had it bad man. audio hallucinations telling me to kill myself. they were demons i srsly believe. Anyways tapering down or detox with phenibarbitol is necessary. its dangerous and more painful to do it yourself. trust me fr real

 

[Swimmingdancer]

I think its just a paradox that lies within myself that makes me not believe in this method. While i absolutely 100% see the benefits of psychadelics, their contribution to society and the entire spiritual change & enlightenment I've experienced with them; i still at some point must realize that hallucinogens can be taken for what they are but in the end i am still an addict. I have a hard time believing that a switch can just be turned off and the allure that the life has for me and the twisted thought patterns i have about how "good" drugs made me feel can just be forgotten. Even psychadelics themselves have been a slippery slope for me because they lead me to believe its okay to use them. Just like its okay to drink. Basically its never a drug that cures another drug you know? Some reliable data would be helpful i just think ibogaine treatment is still in its infancy and not enough data has been shown. I have only just started hearing about it though.

Well it's not that simple. As I said, it's not a magic cure. But it is certainly a lot more helpful than doing nothing or a conventional rehab. I believe this from personal experience (with ayahuasca, not ibogaine, although they are very similar in their use to treat addiction), the experiences of many people I know, the experiences of many people I have talked to and heard about, the research that has been done (yes it's not a ton but it's very hard to get funding to research something that is not going to make the pharmaceutical companies money), documentaries I've seen, and doctors/healers I've spoken with who use these treatments.

Personally I think it is ok to use psychedelics, so I don't understand how that is a "slippery slope".

I also don't understand why it should be impossible for one drug to be a treatment for addiction to anther drug. Ibogaine and ayahuasca are not at all addictive and there have been very few reports of any lasting adverse effects and no deaths when taken without other drugs or severe pre-existing health issues. They are plants; everything that affects the body/brain is technically a "drug". They have also been used for literally 1000's of years, which is more than we can say about pharmaceuticals. *I would say ayahuasca is much safer than ibogaine and that is part of the reason I choose it.

I don't know quite as much about ibogaine as I do ayahuasca, but MAPS currently has a number of studies on ibogaine underway.

Pub Med has a number of papers about ibogaine but I am not able to access them all. Unfortunately the usual scientific method doesn't always lend itself to assessing the value of this kind of therapy, because the way that the ibogaine or ayahuasca is administered and by whom have a lot to do with whether or not it will be successful. For example, taking the whole-plant extract is a soothing forest retreat setting, by an experienced shaman or doctor who understands the traditional use, in conjunction with other therapies, is very different from taking an isolated or synthesized compound in a hospital bed with men in lab coats hovering over you. And personally I think that success is defined by overall reduction in addiction and reduction of harmful behaviours, rather than solely feeling no withdrawal symptoms and/or achieving a certain period of time 100% abstinent from all drugs.

I would honestly just be searching through all the info available online to find specific links to particularly notable reliable studies, but I can do that if you want. I also think that there is value in anecdotal evidence.

If you want some recommend reading/films about ayahuasca I can post some.

 

[Mycotheologist]

Some people are pressed in a position where quitting could jeopardize their jobs or personal lives. But in reality it's only as hard as you make it out to be. It depends on what kind of a person you are and how strong willed you are to be able to avoid a relapse.

Yeah, I believe that is the single most difficult part about quitting a drug like heroin or benzos. Sitting at home, not having anything to do or anyone to bother you while in withdrawal is agonising enough, someone who has to go to work and do things during withdrawal has it 10 times harder. I quit phenibut cold turkey after a short 3 week binge a few months ago and although I had a full week off with nothing to do and nobody to bother me, I still found it hard. Using other substances to ease the w/d symptoms makes things 1000 times easier and more pleasant. Quitting phenibut when you have benzos isn't even unpleasant because the benzos cover up all w/d symptoms. While I've never tried it, I believe pregabalin or gabapentin is an excellent drug for managing opioid withdrawals because it not only counteracts the insomnia, aggitation and anxiety like benzos do, it also alleviates pain. On top of that, a psychiatrist recommended I try lyrica instead of benzos because he said it is not addictive. I intuitively know thats not true for some reason but I'm guessing it takes a very long time to get addicted to pregabalin.

In my experience, GABAb are probably not a good choice for opioid w/d because in my case, they actually induce pain sometimes which makes it difficult to sleep. They also make me aggitated. Those may be paradoxical reactions though so its probably different for other people. There was a homeless alcoholic in my town who I was friendly with and he had such a bad alcohol addiction that his whole head was swollen with edema. Last month he died. From what I hear, he quitting drinking and died of a heart attack. If he had just gone to the doctor and got them to prescribe him baclofen, he'd still be alive.