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Is Drug taking Stealing your Soul Juice

PatDee

Greenlighter
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
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25
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inside my head
for those of us who believe in the soul & the after life...could it be, that when you have a good drug experience, you are tapping into your allotted allowance of Soul Juice for this incarnation? & thus depleting it for future incarnations? but if experienced unaided (no drugs) natural highs will never deplete?

or have I been smoking too much?
 
um...

it's *possible* that rainbow soul juice from another multidimension (the stuff that gets squeezed into you when you take lsd) has a limited supply...

lol. :)
 
souljuice works on a zero sum method, the more you have the less others do.


but seriously, you're looking at the idea/concept all wrong. there is something to the idea of dulling or spiking the senses having consequences in a spiritual sense, but it's not like what you posted. it's more aking to soul stealing with every recording or photograph there is of you.
 
Well, your system will only work optimally for so long.
http://www.rcgd.isr.umich.edu/life/Readings2007/Raz reading.pdf


Soul juice or no, your memory, for instance, peaks in it's performance around the age of 20, I believe.
Anyways, 'drugs' is such a broad term as to be useless. Sleeping pills are known to damage memory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine#Long-term_effects

Anecdotally, 'smart drugs' seem to be glorified (low dose) amphetamine.
So, take all that hype with a grain of salt. Exercise is the best nootropic.


Cardiovascular health (heart & mind are intimately connected) and always challenging your mind.
Not too much stress, as that can kill brain cells, etc etc etc.

Drugs, in moderation can be seen like a steak and milkshake every once in a while to reward yrself.
But, yeah, SOUL JUICE! I like that. "Squash dat noise, son, you contaminatin' ma SOUL JUICE!!" :P

baby-smile.jpg
 
i take it you mean karma, life force, soul juice, da funk, the magic, zest, the shine etc. i have to admit i'll remember your quite original naming of it, so in return i'll answer your question to the best of my abilities =D.

i agree with L2R. ultimately, its a zero sum game. higher peaks, deeper lows. if a sober life is more of a sine wave, drug use (bearing in mind moderation and non-addiction) would be more um.. 'peaky' or 'botched', if you will, due to intentional/active modification of your highs, resulting in making them (more) independent of culturally and/or naturally/biologically ingrained patterns. problemo numero uno with drug use however is addiction (whether that be psychological or physical), where your use starts to take a toll on your interaction with others as well as yourself negatively. you will drag this negative baggage with you one way or another until you come to terms with it one way or another. a typical pattern found in addiction is that even at your highest peak, you still seem to be just under the line where you would want to be (chasing a dragon, trying to recreate that first time full of wonder etc.). the longer you keep such an addiction pattern up, the more you will condition your mind in a pavlovian way saying 'pleasure can only be derived in this state' even though its not that pleasurable anymore but more of a normality, ie. necessity for normal functioning. due to tolerance and physical deterioration, this state becomes more and more untenable, until it breaks down. what happens then is 'payback time' or 'deconditioning'. and this is the difficult trap of drug dependence: due to it having affirmed a million times over, so to speak, that the drug state is the only 'access gate' to pleasurable experience, little to none at all seems to be gained from the sober state of mind, and a long period of 'payback time' ensues; slowly unwinding layer after layer of conditionality. after a while, more and more pleasure can be found in sobriety, but the process, when coming from a sate of addiction, will always be subjectively experienced as 'too little too slow'. physical damage is even worse, as it heals even slower, if at all, and not even the drug-escape/relapse can do only little about that if anything at all, often leading to reasoning akin to 'fuck it, everything is already lost anyway' and ensuing in what would be viewed as kamikaze/suicidal behaviour.

an interesting parallel to note is one from the food industry: due to all the additives and taste agents often added to (fast/cheap) food, healthy and more nutritional food/cooking will be experienced as less tasty, only because of the conditioning of the taste buds, losing sensitivity, and thus healthy, natural foods will more often be ignored in favor of an unhealthy diet. physically, diabetes as a consequence of unhealthy diet again is the internal result of the external unhealthy pattern: fatty and sugary food becomes addictive due to a feeling of well-being that is the result of the insulin peak that follows consumption. as a result, the pancreas gland becomes overextended in its insulin production, leading to the deterioration of its sensitivity to sugar levels in the blood, and as such it becomes dependent on external aid (insulin injections) and all of its consequences on top of the more direct yet reversible consequences of an unhealthy diet.
 
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like anything its moderation. i think as you mature you grow to learn to listen to what your body and soul needs. down two specific food types and drugs for certain times and situations. (i need wheat bread, i need coffee, i need weed, i need sleep. etc) each in its own time.
as long as you listen to your body and soul and heed its warnings and pangs you'll be fine.

beware of artificial pangs, addictions, doing things just because or doing things rashly out of boredom.
not saying dont do anything when you are bored, just be extra careful of if its something you really need or could benefit from.
 
A devote Buddhist friend of mine always denigrates my very occasional (as compared to recreational users) use of psychedelics as a "short-cut that won't get you anywhere". This attitude is really strange to me, and I have many reasons why, but I'd like to get some other perspectives on this issue - especially if you've heard this line before.

^Some funny responses above. L2R, there was something very William S. Burroughs about your response. :)
 
^ i'd say your buddhist friend is both right and wrong. (the best answers in life always start like that =D) He is right in saying it isn't a shortcut. because there ain't no shortcuts to living your live the way you want to live it. So, in terms of seeking to broaden ones spiritual horizons, there aren't really any right or wrongs. Buddhist practise seeks to abolish desire, but not the will to live so to speak, but the desire as means to an end. because when you pragmatise that in regard to an entire life, the ultimate end of it is nothing really, or, more aptly named, death. thus, it is pointless to go seek 'ends'/'final destinations' etc. because there ain't really one. In this perspective, the 'end' is the here and now, cause just like you were born, you also gonna be dead one day too. Thus, one says, the path is what is important, not its destination. the secret of life (and death) and nirvana etc. are all to be found in the here and now, in this life you are living now. So the buddhist sits and clears his mind from anything else. But to what end? well, none, directly speaking, because the correct meditation wards against using meditation as means to an end. one doesn't meditate to become enlightened, one just meditates. and through it, a very unique and unspeakable knowledge is revealed, namely a better take on how you should be living your life to a fuller degree. in other words, should he judge anothers use of psychedelics as 'inferior', this judgement, and the time he spends on it, is just as pointless as that which he is judging, and thus, by extension, psychedelic use is just as useless as meditation in terms of being a means to an end.

which doesn't mean that, just like for meditation, there are a few things to be said for psychedelics as a spiritual path. the experience, just like a deep meditation, is enclosed within itself. just like medation, a deeper contact is sought with the subconscious self, though while the meditation does so in silence, and anything that does come up is immediate/useful as it appears, the psychedelic experience is full of noise and bells and whistles, the subconscious in all its de- and reforming glory. which is a bit of a mess. thus, the spiritual seeker, when confronted by this, just like the meditator confronted with the silence, seeks, or perhaps rather waits, in order to figure something for himself to take 'home' from it. a piece of intimate 'knowledge' regarding oneself, which can, possibly, in a later state, be transformed into a more abstract and general statement or coherent discourse to be shared with others.

so all in all, there is little difference between meditation and say psychedelic use in the terms of a spiritual seeker. Even worse: a true spiritual seeker will find spirituality in anything and everything he does. And this fact can easily be derived from the buddhist frame of mind, as we did above. Thus, the buddhist judging 'a lesser way' is in fact, only judging his own shortcoming in seeing 'the way' all around him, happening constantly in the here and now for everybody. Should he find suffering around him, he is not to seek a moral high ground in himself and his ways, but he is to lend his heart to the other in need, and this heart is, or should be attempted to be, devoid of judgement, which comes only from attachment to the self; and what such a heart really does, is nothing but suffer with him, to the best of its abilities, without it seeking to affirm itself against the other because it is afraid to lose its self. and in this state of being at one with (one)others heart (which it always already is) it will be taught, that its suffering is merely another transformation into a higher state of being. the reward of its compassion will be more extensive knowledge of 'how', so next time it meets with suffering akin, it will have become better/more efficient at transforming it, and it will be able to do more with even less.
 
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an interesting side-note, the australian aborigines do not like photos/videos of deceased people being broadcasted or looked at. so much so, on aussie news there needs to be a verbal warning if images of deceased people will be shown.
 
^ i'd say your buddhist friend is both right and wrong. (the best answers in life always start like that =D) He is right in saying it isn't a shortcut. because there ain't no shortcuts to living your live the way you want to live it. So, in terms of seeking to broaden ones spiritual horizons, there aren't really any right or wrongs. Buddhist practise seeks to abolish desire, but not the will to live so to speak, but the desire as means to an end. because when you pragmatise that in regard to an entire life, the ultimate end of it is nothing really, or, more aptly named, death. thus, it is pointless to go seek 'ends'/'final destinations' etc. because there ain't really one. In this perspective, the 'end' is the here and now, cause just like you were born, you also gonna be dead one day too. Thus, one says, the path is what is important, not its destination. the secret of life (and death) and nirvana etc. are all to be found in the here and now, in this life you are living now. So the buddhist sits and clears his mind from anything else. But to what end? well, none, directly speaking, because the correct meditation wards against using meditation as means to an end. one doesn't meditate to become enlightened, one just meditates. and through it, a very unique and unspeakable knowledge is revealed, namely a better take on how you should be living your life to a fuller degree. in other words, should he judge anothers use of psychedelics as 'inferior', this judgement, and the time he spends on it, is just as pointless as that which he is judging, and thus, by extension, psychedelic use is just as useless as meditation in terms of being a means to an end.

which doesn't mean that, just like for meditation, there are a few things to be said for psychedelics as a spiritual path. the experience, just like a deep meditation, is enclosed within itself. just like medation, a deeper contact is sought with the subconscious self, though while the meditation does so in silence, and anything that does come up is immediate/useful as it appears, the psychedelic experience is full of noise and bells and whistles, the subconscious in all its de- and reforming glory. which is a bit of a mess. thus, the spiritual seeker, when confronted by this, just like the meditator confronted with the silence, seeks, or perhaps rather waits, in order to figure something for himself to take 'home' from it. a piece of intimate 'knowledge' regarding oneself, which can, possibly, in a later state, be transformed into a more abstract and general statement or coherent discourse to be shared with others.

so all in all, there is little difference between meditation and say psychedelic use in the terms of a spiritual seeker. Even worse: a true spiritual seeker will find spirituality in anything and everything he does. And this fact can easily be derived from the buddhist frame of mind, as we did above. Thus, the buddhist judging 'a lesser way' is in fact, only judging his own shortcoming in seeing 'the way' all around him, happening constantly in the here and now for everybody. Should he find suffering around him, he is not to seek a moral high ground in himself and his ways, but he is to lend his heart to the other in need, and this heart is, or should be attempted to be, devoid of judgement, which comes only from attachment to the self; and what such a heart really does, is nothing but suffer with him, to the best of its abilities, without it seeking to affirm itself against the other because it is afraid to lose its self. and in this state of being at one with (one)others heart (which it always already is) it will be taught, that its suffering is merely another transformation into a higher state of being. the reward of its compassion will be more extensive knowledge of 'how', so next time it meets with suffering akin, it will have become better/more efficient at transforming it, and it will be able to do more with even less.

Pretty much agree with all of this. Especially this:
Thus, the buddhist judging 'a lesser way' is in fact, only judging his own shortcoming in seeing 'the way' all around him, happening constantly in the here and now for everybody.

I'm very interested in Buddhism too, but I find this "there is one way" notion of doing things to be absurd. I would much rather develop my own "spirituality" from various sources to create/discover what fits me best.
 
Thus, the buddhist judging 'a lesser way' is in fact, only judging his own shortcoming in seeing 'the way' all around him, happening constantly in the here and now for everybody.
I'm very interested in Buddhism too, but I find this "there is one way" notion of doing things to be absurd. I would much rather develop my own "spirituality" from various sources to create/discover what fits me best.
that's perfectly compatible with bhuddism. the quote didn't imply that there is one way to travel. rather, when we see another person "in a lower way", we have to realize that we feel that way about their actions because, at the same time, we see or sense the same "lower way" within ourselves. and it's not really a "lower way," like you said; it's just another part of nature that can change (and perhaps should change) aka growth.
 
that's perfectly compatible with bhuddism.

I would agree with this personally - but have encountered palpable arrogance among some people that identify as Buddhist when it comes to the psychedelic question.

the quote didn't imply that there is one way to travel. rather, when we see another person "in a lower way", we have to realize that we feel that way about their actions because, at the same time, we see or sense the same "lower way" within ourselves. and it's not really a "lower way," like you said; it's just another part of nature that can change (and perhaps should change) aka growth.

Perhaps it's my obsession with language coming through here - but self-righteousness (of which I feel these adjectives are suggestive) seems to be in stark contrast to Buddhist ideals.

If everything is the way, shouldn't we use a language that utilises words that aren't so polar in nature? I'm interested in the idea of growth in this instance also - suggesting that someone's practice should change (perhaps) in conjunction with the notion of growth also alludes to one "knowing" more than another.

I'm getting carried away. This thread is about soul juice and drugs stealing yours ;)
 
its the typical problem of all organized religion (and it probably holds true for a religion organized around a psychedelic too): its own relativity vs. its claim on the absolute. a religion is a way, and through the ages of its existence, that way is crafted and recreated all the time in order to be as perfect as possible for the faithful travelling that way. The centerpiece of any organized religion is its doctrine regarding happiness and suffering, and especially, how and in what way the two equate to eachother. So the idea behind the 'arrogance' or 'ego' attached to that is actually rather simple: it reflects ones commitment to a path chosen, or the lack of/self-doubt regarding that. say for buddhism: here there be a path aimed at the unspeakable absolute that has been travelled by millions of monks over the course of thousand years, and it constantly being perfected and adjusted to be as perfect a guide as it can be. the question such a path asks of a seeker is relatively simple: how far are you willing to commit, ie.: do you believe your own commitment to seeking 'God' here, traveller? and if you don't, why not? the lone postmodernist has nothing to rely on except himself, which means he himself is solely resposable for the checks and balances to counter his excesses, while someone comitting to a tradition has the others in his tradition to fall back on. In the end, the idea of the traditionalist is of course to internalize his tradition in his own way, to make it his own. So further down the road of a tradition, its absolute question can be relativized because the structure of the tradition towards the unspeakable has been ingrained as structures of silence. its claim to the absolute has been individualized in the seeker, and has therefor become relative, but it remains unspoken. the tension between absolute vs. relative can no longer be discerned/named. in philosophy, Wittgensteins Ladder is an expression of this.

The point of the ego in a commitment is simply its own doubt, which is a necessary step of growing in any spiritual path. it is like the adolescence of a belief system. it means coming to a relation between ones own spirituality and abstract spirituality as a whole. and the blade cuts both ways: a judgement about another way can be seen as both a reflection of ones commitment and the acceptance of ones immaturity ('humility') towards what he sees as greater then himself, as well as his fear (self-doubt) regarding his personal travelling/choice of that path. which are all the same thing: namely, growth :). just try to watch out for excesses, for they may become cancers. and know that a beautiful garden requires pruning as well. ah well, i'm trying to reach for the unspeakable again and probably reaching new heights of incomprehensibilty here by trying to keep it concise as well =D

you know, when you think about it, one can really put the entire problem in just one line of Sting's 'Englishman in New York': "it takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile" (to get you started: his own, or someone elses?)
 
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