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Intelligent Design and predestination

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
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Does anybody believe in predestination that the future is predestined to happen a certain way by a higher power? Not necessarily a god or person, just a certain force.
I believe everything that happens within the next billion years has to happen according to a plan. Maybe a divine plan, or scared plan.
 
Does anybody believe in predestination that the future is predestined to happen a certain way by a higher power? Not necessarily a god or person, just a certain force.
I believe everything that happens within the next billion years has to happen according to a plan. Maybe a divine plan, or scared plan.
I believe human existence is completely random, objectively. All humans and the entirety of our peers (Earth's lifeforms) Are rock growths with faces designing themselves to have a desperate cling to life only to further the hive minded agenda of evolution on the planet.
 
Does anybody believe in predestination that the future is predestined to happen a certain way by a higher power? Not necessarily a god or person, just a certain force.
I believe everything that happens within the next billion years has to happen according to a plan. Maybe a divine plan, or scared plan.
I believe there is a divine plan for sure!
 
Its not so much a plan as it is a trajectory. Sort of like a shooting bullet on field on a windy day. Before that bullet leaves the gun it is predestined to land in a certain spot, which is based on a number of variables.

The universe is the same, and we are all currently caught in that still unfolding explosion.



The question is, what is the shape of that trajectory:



However I think its pretty unlikely that one of the fairy tale-like explanations that humans have devised (like a god, etc) could potentially explain "why" all of this is happening.
 
Because I've had visions of the future that came true beyond mere chance, I am inclined to believe that past, present and future are somehow intertwined, but not on the the physical/material level. Our bodies are linear but our consciousness may contain properties that are temporally non-linear. Don't ask me to prove it because I have no idea. These visions were random and you would not be able to test for them, but their accuracy was uncanny. Similarly, I have had many dreams that came true, but the contents of those dreams was arbitrary and not useful.

I don't think this necessarily means that predestination is always a thing. Maybe sometimes it is, while other times it isn't. It may depend on certain events. On the other hand, I sometimes wonder if humans just have the wrong idea about time, and the way I'm (we) describing this is not even an accurate model.

We judge time based on the rotation of the earth, daylight, and the earth's movement around the Sun, which is totally arbitrary. General relativity tells us that massive objects generate gravity, which dilates space-time. For instance, if you get close to a black hole, time will slow to an infinitesimal level, to the point that it stops when you reach the accretion disk. However, if our perception of time is based on our neurological senses alone, then you would not even know if time is slowing or speeding up. You could be next to frozen in time and wouldn't realize it. To an outside observer, you would appear frozen, but from your perspective everything would be normal. The outside universe would age thousands of times faster than you.

Yet humans seem to exhibit some traits of awareness about temporal anomalies. We experience deja vu, visions of the future, and so-called extrasensory things... so I am inclined to think that our sense of time is not just sensory, it's also some other as of yet undiscovered property of consciousness itself.
 
Does anybody believe in predestination that the future is predestined to happen a certain way by a higher power? Not necessarily a god or person, just a certain force.
I believe everything that happens within the next billion years has to happen according to a plan. Maybe a divine plan, or scared plan.
Total randomness is a stupid hypothesis, IMO, so there needs to be some kind of plan/predestination
I mean, intelligence being a random event in evolution, and then some species discovering laws that are intertwinned... without the very universe being a form of intelligent behaviour in a major dimension way, I don't know, it makes no sense to me.
 
Its not so much a plan as it is a trajectory. Sort of like a shooting bullet on field on a windy day. Before that bullet leaves the gun it is predestined to land in a certain spot, which is based on a number of variables.

The universe is the same, and we are all currently caught in that still unfolding explosion.



The question is, what is the shape of that trajectory:



However I think its pretty unlikely that one of the fairy tale-like explanations that humans have devised (like a god, etc) could potentially explain "why" all of this is happening.
Those fairy-tale like explanations at least cover the idea of "why". Science itself can never explain any "why" because it's outside their range of action, Science it's description of events, and then understanding the laws that explain why those events are like that, in certain levels (physical, chemical) but that is not what the "why" is trying to explain, it's totally different.
 
Its not so much a plan as it is a trajectory. Sort of like a shooting bullet on field on a windy day. Before that bullet leaves the gun it is predestined to land in a certain spot, which is based on a number of variables.

The universe is the same, and we are all currently caught in that still unfolding explosion.



The question is, what is the shape of that trajectory:



However I think its pretty unlikely that one of the fairy tale-like explanations that humans have devised (like a god, etc) could potentially explain "why" all of this is happening.

The James Webb telescope is challenging a lot of this now. There are distant galaxies which have morphologies and wavelengths that do not match up with big bang theory and we are yet to explain the discrepancies. Right now the expanding universe theory is in limbo.

I've personally always found the big bang theory rather farfetched so it's not surprising at all that they are finding contradictions now.
 
The James Webb telescope is challenging a lot of this now. There are distant galaxies which have morphologies and wavelengths that do not match up with big bang theory and we are yet to explain the discrepancies. Right now the expanding universe theory is in limbo.

I've personally always found the big bang theory rather farfetched so it's not surprising at all that they are finding contradictions now.

Yeah the big bang theory has long been something I've grappled with. Though its a concept that I have a pretty superficial understanding of (and perhaps I wouldn't struggle with it if I understood it better). The notion of some sort of singularity, in all its geodesic incompleteness, existing outside of anything, really weirds me out
 
Yeah the big bang theory has long been something I've grappled with. Though its a concept that I have a pretty superficial understanding of (and perhaps I wouldn't struggle with it if I understood it better). The notion of some sort of singularity, in all its geodesic incompleteness, existing outside of anything, really weirds me out

Basically, the big bang theory was based on Hubble Telescope observations in red shifts. As the universe expands, it stretches light waves. Longer light waves are more red, so galaxies that are furthest away should be the reddest because their wavelengths are the most stretched. (Think about the billions of years it would take light to reach us from those distant galaxies, while their light is being stretched by the expanding universe.) Hubble noticed that the red shift was consistent at every distance, out to the limits of its observational power. However, the James Webb telescope is now finding galaxies beyond those limits whose red shift is of smaller wavelengths than galaxies that are closer to us, which does not line up with big bang theory. If the universe started as a singularity and then expanded, then the ages of galaxies should have a gradient at each layer of distance. Instead, we are finding galaxies with younger characteristics beyond what Hubble used to considered the oldest layer. How can younger galaxies with a reduced red shift exist beyond the oldest galaxies with the most red shift if the universe started at one point and expanded outward symmetrically?

Also... the shapes of galaxies are important. More distant galaxies were the first to form when the universe was created (under big bang theory), and they tend to have characteristic shapes. Newer galaxies tend to be more spiral, while older ones tend to lose their spiral shape and become more globular or diffuse. They're finding spiral galaxies really far out, along with other shapes reminiscent of newer galaxies, which does not align with the big bang theory.

There are other discrepancies, but the science is too complicated to go into here. The scientific community is kind of flipping out because the current paradigm is now under heavy scrutiny. This is why people should not put so much faith into scientific theories. A theory is only the dominant view until prove to the contrary arises, which could happen at any time. People need to stop talking like theories are the almighty truth for all time and use it to attack opponents. The truth is that our view of the universe is unfolding and it's super complicated.

What I'm personally wondering is if what we have been observing under Hubble, although really far out (billions of light years), is still "local", and there is a much, much bigger universe beyond even that "local" universe that has a different shape and diversity of galaxies. Kind of like how we have local galaxy groups (which we are part of) that move in relation to each other. Maybe there are huge arms of the universe that have localized properties within an even greater universe that is beyond our observation. In other words, what we have been observing as "expanding" is our local universe and does not apply to the greater universe. i.e. there are different enormous pockets of expansion and contraction in the larger universe. It's unfathomable, mostly because most of the universe is empty (lacks matter or energy), so we don't even know what forces would be involved in orchestrating all that.

A much bigger part of my thought process is that maybe it's more likely that we are looking out at something that will always be beyond our comprehension. The universe may not even have a beginning, or may not conform to other rules of our linear thought process, which is something the human mind can't handle. Most of our mathematical models are based on symmetry and linearity, as well as the conservation of information, but it may not even be true at the higher order of the universe. Black holes are challenging both general and special relativity for this reason. Information goes into them but then it doesn't come out in any recognizable form.

My vague sense is that humans are still fairly backward in how they conceptualize things. Internally, we compare ourselves to how we were thousands of years of ago and call it a major progression, but it's probably more like a grain of sand in an hourglass.
 
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