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intellectual fads

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bleedingheartcommie

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I was listening to an Alan Watts speech the other day. In it he mentioned how there are fads and cliques among intellectuals just as their are in social encounters. It's something i've noticed, but never really thought about. There are those who believe or preach a philosophy or theory just because they want to identify with others who share the view. It's like an intellectual frat party. An example that comes to mind is music snobs. You know that guy who only listens to one band and puts down every other song that comes on. I'll also point out under educated or do nothing environmentalists. Can you think of any examples? which ones do you hate the most.
 
Oh for sure. I've heard this same lecture by Watts, and it is unambiguously true. Some of the philosophy professors just don't get it. They think that philosophy is an actual thing that can and should and must be figured out. They "do" philosophy rather than produce philosophy. This really disgusted me in my "Philosophy of Mind" class, where the prof just couldn't hear what I was saying to him concerning the nature of consciousness. The nature of consciousness can't be figured out; it can only be directly experienced. In the mind, the mind is not to be found. He refused to hear it. Consciousness just HAD to be rationally modelable--dualism, functionalism, epiiphenominalism, behaviorism, ad infinitum.

It was like he approached philosophy in a labcoat, trying to figure it out by looking at it under a miscroscope.
 
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hahaha both of you are right on the money
i get tired of people who talk about 'intellectual' things and try to sound smart but to anyone with half a brain obviously have NO idea what they are talking about. but most people think theyre actually smart and thats depressing.
the music thing too. oh man dont even get me started.
 
The nature of consciousness can't be figured out; it can only be directly experienced. In the mind, the mind is not to be found.
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You are "doing" philosophy in believing this, and there are many philosophers who would agree with you.

You know that guy who only listens to one band and puts down every other song that comes on.
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Yes that is annoying, I agree.

i get tired of people who talk about 'intellectual' things and try to sound smart but to anyone with half a brain obviously have NO idea what they are talking about. but most people think theyre actually smart and thats depressing.
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You might want to read some Plato. His thinking is almost exactly in line with yours on this issue. I think the word you want to look up is "sophistry." (notice the root)

Be careful not to do any "philosophizing" though ;)
 
yea, environmentalism is such a fad. in 20 years when there's no environment left to protect they'll all move on.
 
I dont think all environmentalists are in it for the fad. I consider myself to be one. The ones that bug me are the ones who are all talk and no action. It was sorta a fad at my highschool i guess
 
yea i know what you mean. there are a lot of people who just pretend to be liberal and progressive for the image. my roommate is kinda like that.
 
I am certain that Watts is really pissed because his 'intelectual clique' is rather marginal.
 
i think the thing with the environmentalist is that they feel a conection with the environment, and like being out there more than they like to do actual work. they like to experience the outdoors and the places where society dosn't reside. they just like to be away from everything.

i could be completly wrong, but i say what i do because i am a hunter and fisher and know how the wilderness can effect you. i feel more alive than ever when i am mono y mono with the wild. it is a place where you can veiw everything for what it is. you don't have people out there trying to get you to buy their product, or people telling you what to do. you are truely free. you have what you need to survive around you and no one to compete with. there is no currency, only trading with the earth. you take and give to it. the true circle of life is understood without the blinding of corporations and government.

get out there and experience it for a couple of days. go camping with nothing. research how to make a shelter, the poisonous plants in the area, what you can eat from the wild, and basic survival skills. i think that you will see things alittle differently when you isolate yourself from everything man made exept your clothes, and can truely think without the brainwashing techniques used by our government and corporations. it may be hard for many of you, but i highly suggest it to everyone.

im not saying that you will fall in love with the wilderness, i just know that you will be able to open your mind about many things. get out there. come on, do it.
 
image-feminists really get to me. The kind who could interpret every single thing to be discriminatory towards women, and can talk for hours and hours about this but in fact do very little.
 
image-feminists really get to me. The kind who could interpret every single thing to be discriminatory towards women, and can talk for hours and hours about this but in fact do very little.
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It's funny, I've never met one of those before. In fact, most feminists I meet don't care much about men or oppression, they care about celebrating their womanhood. Are you sure you aren't just refering to a sterotype that the word "feminist" draws in society?
 
Kul69 said:
most feminists I meet don't care much about men or oppression, they care about celebrating their womanhood.
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those are the ones that bother me. don't get me wrong, I'm glad they celebrate their womenhood. But when they are doing it because they think they are supposed to, rather than knowing why it is important to change the social climate, then they are just joining the fad. I just think it is important to understand how your gender has been socially opressed before you start chanting catchphrases. It's sort of a slap in the face to the educated feminist movement.
 
is it just me or are most feminist lesbians? all they do is rag on men and how we use women as objects. come on, i'm shure that there are many men in here that have loved the shit out of a woman, and never did shit wrong to them. and what did they do to you, fucked around on you. why, because they thought that you would stay with them as much as you proclaimed your love and devotion to them.

look at how many women are the ones filing for devorce these days. its not the men leaving the women behind, its the women realizing they can have anything they want using that little thing with hair on it, and saying fuck this dude.

i watched the E true hollywood story on jenna jameson the other night and there was a feminist on there talking about how wrong the adult film industry is. good ole jenna told her, "why should i feel bad because i have sex for a living? the women get payed more than the men, we get to choose who we work with, and we have a high quality of life".

the women who are used as "objects" love what they do. they get paid great money to do next to nothing and they become famous. isnt that what most women want. money , power, respect?
 
Just read a good essay on pornography/prostitution and feminism. It has always irked me too, I noticed first when I was part of a "freethinker" forum, that every damn person thought the exact same way. No free thinkin there. Pornography was one of the issues. Part of us women having the freedom to do what we want is fuck for money, if we so choose to do.

*tryign to find that essay for ya* well, I can't. It is in a book in front of me, but can't find it online Wendy McElroy is the author, if anyone is interested.

Great thread. It is true that many follow fads in issues. IMO it is immaturity in their "philosophising (lol) or their "enlightenment" I found myself in my beginnings tending to look at others for views. That stage didn't last long, don't get me wrong. Guess it is that hive mentality. people, once they find others "like them" don't wanna rock the boat, and have different views.
 
Kul69 said:
Are you sure you aren't just refering to a sterotype that the word "feminist" draws in society?
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Nope. I've met genuine feminists, and then I've met people that just use feminism for a cover-up so they can bitch as much as they want. In my opinion, a lot of people who are real feminists don't even call themselves that. I mean sure, if someone asks them "are you a feminist" they say that they are, but they don't stick the title in people's faces all the time. On the other hand, I know people who are 'genuine' feminists too and that also go in for the whole 'feminist image', but that's ok as long as they are doing it because it's something they are passionate about, and as long as it's not just a reason to take out their frustrations on whoever.

And as for what SgTaIrBoRnE said, I wouldn't be surprised if Jenna Jameson is in fact more of a genuine feminist than the woman who was talking about how bad the adult film industry is.
 
i hate conservatives that stereotype every liberal demographic out there.
 
>>is it just me or are most feminist lesbians? all they do is rag on men and how we use women as objects.>>

It's just you. Most feminists I've met are straight, and most lesbians I've met have better things to do with their time than rag on men.

Heh...I could be called a feminist, although I have certain hesitations about applying the label to myself. I am definitely not a lesbian. :)

>>look at how many women are the ones filing for devorce these days. its not the men leaving the women behind, its the women realizing they can have anything they want using that little thing with hair on it, and saying fuck this dude.>>

Or perhaps it is that more women won't tolerate disequitable treatment.
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I would say that gendered oppression goes beyond the relationship-based conflicts you cite. We still see widespread disparities among wages between women and men and "pink-collar" work and typically male professions. We still see many more women taking the "double-shift" of domestic and wage-labor than men. We still see the devaluation of feminine attributes and valuation of that which is constructed as masculine in society at large. The feminist movement still has a great deal of work ahead...

>>i watched the E true hollywood story on jenna jameson the other night and there was a feminist on there talking about how wrong the adult film industry is. good ole jenna told her, "why should i feel bad because i have sex for a living? the women get payed more than the men, we get to choose who we work with, and we have a high quality of life".>>

Jameson makes a good point, and this actually gets at a long-going debate between so-called libertarian feminists and other feminists. Now, I would imagine that many women have different impetuses for and feel different effects from acting in the porn industry. On the other hand, so-called "objectification" does seem to be more prevelant for women than men and does have specific, measurable deleterious consequences.

ebola
 
jenna jameson was gangraped by her high school football team. that may be her impetus for doing porn. most girls who go into porn or stripping/prostitution don't see anything wrong with it. most of them have also suffered molestation/rape and other forms of psychological trauma growing up.

i'm not saying that doing porn is bad. just that in the cultural framework that we live in, with the common perceptions of sex that we have today, usually it takes a kinda fucked up girl to go into porn. guys who go into the porn industry may be very different just because their sexual roles aren't percieved of as humiliating/derogatory.
 
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