Information On Ketamine Cramps (K-Cramps)?

[DiscoBiscuitsPhan]

Can somebody link me to, or post some information on K-Cramps please? I need to know the symptoms of having K-Cramps, what a K-Cramp Feels like, and how to know if you have K-Cramps for the most part.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

There are no symptoms of ketamine cramps, the cramps are the symptom, it's when you do ketamine and you get cramps. The cramps can be a symptom of something more serious, like a bladder, kidney, liver, gall-bladder, etc, problem.

The most common problem is urinary tract irritation, which can include abdominal pain, constant feeling of needing to urinate, incontinence, and pain urinating. The more K someone uses and the longer they use it for the more likely they are to get these symptoms. The symptoms can usually be cleared up by stopping the ketamine.

Another problem, which is what most people are probably referring to when they speak of "k-cramps", is that people using ketamine sometimes get severe gastric pain, cramping in the abdomen which feels more like the kind of cramps you would get from diarrhea etc. They can be anything from fairly mild cramps to cramps so excruiciating that you are doubled over in pain. It is not yet fully understood what causes these cramps, or if they are always caused by the same problem, but again, stopping the ketamine is the solution and they usually go away within a couple days if the person stops using K.

This periodical says:

In addition to urological problems, ketamine abusers may develop hepato-biliary toxicity manifested as recurrent epigastric pain, abnormal liver function, and biliary tree dilatation. The proposed mechanism for ketamine-induced cystitis is direct toxicity of ketamine metabolites on urinary tract mucosa. Because ketamine is metabolized in the liver and excreted in bile, mucosal toxicity has also been postulated as the cause of dilated bile ducts.

You can reduce your likelihood of getting these symptoms by using less K and using it less frequently.

If you are having severe cramps or pain associated with ketamine use, discontinue the ketamine immediately and seek medical attention in case the cramps are a symptom of something serious.

 

[effie]

^ Excellent info

I'm going to move this over to psychedelic drugs as they handle dissociatives such as ketamine, hope that's alright.

BDD > PD

 

[azgaza]

Ehm.. I can type from my own experience as from time to time I can be a bit of a ketamine junkie and in the past half year I've had k-cramps around maybe.. well possible up to 10 times maybe more often.. Not something to be proud of but atleast something I can inform others about: k-cramps come from the gall-bladder; appearantly your gall-ducts dilate and that is what causes the pain; if you want a discription? Pretty much just the worst pain imaginable, any normal kind of painkillers make no difference whatsoever to the pain. What causes them is doing way too much ketamine, lets say serveral grams a day for maybe two or three days and then eating food with a high fat content since that is what the gallbladder is there too digest for. The pain is located in the upper abdomen, slightly to the right around where one would think their liver would be although a higher abdomal central pain can be felt, around the soft spot in between your ribs; the pain is very intense, at its worst almost too bad to stand up straight let alone walk or do stuff and it can last for serveral hours or even days. The only thing strong enough to really take away the pain is ketamine itself which, if you still have the cramps, just prolongs the time you'll be having them. If you wait until they go away and then do ketamine again they do not instantly return but they must resolve first. K-cramps are not related to the bladder issues that are also possible with doing too much K; a lot of people think they are related but they are not. The pain is much higher, around the liver area, and has nothing to do with your urine bladder. If you notice yourself getting k-cramps my suggestion is see if you can manage with over the counter painkillers (they won't help much but for example 800 mg ibuprofen, 1 gram of paracetamol and 50 mg of codeine can make it tolerable enough to be able to sleep for example) and sleep it off, it goes away on its own if you just give your body some rest.
If you use ketamine to kill the pain from the k-cramps you can get k-cramps lasting upto a week or more.. I've accidently done this to myself once or twice when I had no time to feel that bad and had to be able to be around and moving and pretend I'm fine; I'm not sure what stress this would put on the body but I advise against it

 

[MyExcuse]

I've had these once on methoxetamine as well, despite structural differences I would be weary of aggravating a prior condition, especially if you are a past K abuser.

Often when I take MXE, my urge to urinate (not sure if directly correlated to any pharmacological reasoning) is increased and I do so frequently. I've only ever noticed this on K and some stimulants. Anyway, once after about 250mg cumulative of I.M. MXE, I became aware of extreme abdominal cramping about 2 hours in and the only thing that relieved this was a hot shower and it felt like I had diarrhea of the bladder for an hour after (probably what pushing a kidney stone out is like).

Be careful, after abusing K, I had bladder issues for quite some time. Mainly a weak bladder where I would need to urinate frequently and suffered weak flow. This went away after about 1-2 years.

 

[Survived Abortion]

Yes, azgaza is correct. The pain comes from the gall-bladder and the bile ducts emanating from the liver, and is related to spasm of the smooth muscle lining the ducts. It can be felt in the liver region, and radiates through the abdomen up the spine. The pain is qualitatively similar to that of a gall-bladder "attack", although it differs in severity depending on how long you have been using ketamine and at what doses.

It's interesting that the pain can still be felt even in the absense of a gall-bladder. Since 2007 I have no gall-bladder, yet I could still feel the pain associated with it when using dissociatives after that time.

A benzodiazepine dose can be a temporary remedy to lessen the severity of the pain, but if you are having these pains, you need to re-evaluate the frequency of your usage. The diuretic effects of arylcyclohexylamines probably cause mineral depletion over time, especially in combination with a poor diet associated with frequent use. Magnesium depletion is known to cause havoc with cramping and other problems.

A word of caution: morphine (or other similar opiate derivatives such as codeine) will actually make the pain worse because they too can precipitate spasm of the smooth muscle in that region. If you are seeking pain relief, look for something other than direct mu-agonistic opiates. Anticholinergics can help with the spasms too by relaxing smooth muscle tone.

Take magnesium supplements whilst using ketamine.

 

[Solipsis]

Visit this K subthread please:
Long Term Side-effects Including "K-cramps"

 

[azgaza]

A word of caution: morphine (or other similar opiate derivatives such as codeine) will actually make the pain worse because they too can precipitate spasm of the smooth muscle in that region. If you are seeking pain relief, look for something other than direct mu-agonistic opiates. Anticholinergics can help with the spasms too by relaxing smooth muscle tone.

Take magnesium supplements whilst using ketamine.

Thank you for this information! I was not aware of this and have tried codeïne against the pain.. had I known that it could make it worse I wouldn't have tried codeine, I will from now on stick to just high dosages of ibuprofen and related painkillers instead, or just be tough and accept the fact I did such a thing to myself (or the benzo / ghb thing and try to sleep through most if it, that works decently well..).

Interesting by the way that you still have a capability of getting the pain without having a gall-bladder, do you have any explanation to the mechanism behind that maybe?

 

[DiscoBiscuitsPhan]

Thanks SO SO much for the helpful info guys. I have a story about what happened to my friend last weekend, and we need to know if he has K-Cramps, or Kidney Stones. He cannot go to the doctor yet because of money issues, but will be going soon, but in the meantime we really need some advice



Please help!!!!! I need a few questions answered. It would be appreciated so so so much.

SWIM have been doing Ketamine for about 3 - 3 1/2 years now. For the first 2 - 2 1/2 years SWIM only did it about 5-10 times a year. Then the usage picked up more and more, until about 2 weeks ago SWIM started doing a half gram to a gram a day. On Wednesday SWIM arrived to a Music Festival which didn't end until Sunday. On Wednesday SWIM did about 1 - 1 1/2 grams of Ketamine, Thursday 2 grams, Friday 2 grams, and Saturday 3 1/2 grams.

Later on Saturday night/Sunday morning at around 6:00a.m. SWIM started getting a pain in his lower stomach area. This pain got worst and worst for about 30 mins. 30 minutes after the pain started the pain started to hurt really bad, and SWIM started having trouble breathing. He said it felt like he got the air knocked out of him (you could literally hear him struggling to inhale), and at the same time he could barelyyyy breath. At this time SWIM got transported in a golf cart to the EMS tent, where they gave him oxygen, and took his blood pressure which was at 140. The Next time it was tested it was at 150. The next time it was tested it was at 160, and SWIM'S temperature was 104 degrees fahrenheit. At this time the EMS told him he needed to be taken to the hospital or he could die from stroke. He told them he could breath now and he wanted them to take his blood pressure one final time. They took it and it went down. It kept going down, until it went back down to normal, and SWIM was released from the medical tent, and sent home.

SWIM now feels normal, and hasn't urinated any stones, and the small amount of urine he has urinated hasn't had blood, or hasn't hurt while urinating. SWIM wants to know if he has kidney stones, or if he might have had K-Cramps

Somebody please help!! THANK YOU SO MUCH

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Hi DiscoBuisuitsPhan, welcome to Bluelight You might want to go over the Bluelight user agreement and the Guidelines for each forum - the Guidelines for this forum, Psychedelic Drugs, can be found here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/528308-PD-Forum-Guidelines
We don't use "SWIM" here, as it really doesn't protect you and just makes your posts harder to read. We also can't provide medical advice and the best thing to do is to seek professional medical attention. There is no way to know over the internet what exactly is wrong with your friend. I would highly recommend he see a doctor, especially if he is still experiencing symptoms. It might have been K-cramps, but it might not have, so it would really be wisest to get it checked out as soon as he can. Since he was having trouble breathing and had high blood pressure and high temperature, it might be something serious. As far as I know, those symptoms aren't that common with K-cramps or kidney stones, aside from maybe breathing erratically because of the pain. The symptoms he had could be caused by so many different things it is impossible to give you any helpful advice other than to see a doctor. Sorry

 

[azgaza]

I found out something awesome recently concerning k-cramps.. Taking MSM (food supplement) and sodium carbonate seems to seriously down tone the impact of the pain and help Both substances cause no harm to the bod and the idea was that the sodium carbonate is good because ketamine is quite acidic and the MSM might be a muscle relaxant which is good for your bladder as well... at my most recent attack of k-cramps this combination made a serious difference. It's not a cure but it definatly helps.. Thought I'd put the suggestion out here

 

[Survived Abortion]

Interesting by the way that you still have a capability of getting the pain without having a gall-bladder, do you have any explanation to the mechanism behind that maybe?

Sorry for not replying to this, I forgot. Yes, there are two explanations which I believe could work in tandem to produce this effect. Firstly, pro-spasmodic effects - exhibited as ketamine is metabolized from your system - affects the smooth muscle of all biliary ducts, not just the ones leading to and from the gall-bladder. When the gall-bladder is removed, there is still a fully functioning network of biliary ducts leading from the liver in to the small intestine. It is these ducts which become inflamed and prone to spasms. Although the bile no longer sits in a reservoir, the smooth muscle walls of the biliary ducts are just as prone to inflammation and spasm as the gall-bladder.

Secondly, there is the issue of phantom pain. After I had my gall-bladder removed, I told a doctor friend of mine in passing conversation that there was still occasional pain in that region. He informed me that it is actually possible to have phantom pain from an organ removal, and that that is what he believed it to be. Apparently phantom gall-bladder pain is a common complaint amongst those who have had the procedure, and is not necessarily attributable to damaged nerves.

In light of this, it seems there is also a link with ketamine, since ketamine is actually very good at supressing phantom pain in amputees. I think it would be fair reasoning to hypothesize that phantom gall-bladder pain (rebound pain) could be triggered as the drug leaves the system, especially if there is infammation to that region via the inflammatory effects of the ketmaine being metabolized to norketamine.

Just to be clear, the pro-spamodic effects occur as the ketamine leaves your system, since ketamine is actually a spasmolytic (in that it reduces the contraction of smooth muscle). That is why taking more ketamine makes the pain go away.

About the MSM helping with your k-cramps: very interesting indeed. I haven't researched that compound very well, so it would be interesting to hear an explanation as to how that is working.

 

[Divulgence]

For me taking 3 gravol does the trick perfectly as long as you dont do another line once the cramps start.

 

[Mads91]

High in the stomach like where the gallbladder/ pancreas would be located?
Or like lower in your stomach?
Kcramps are common but not talked about much for some reason. People sometimes have a really bad sensitivity to ketamine and I've read studies where even just one dose or low doses have caused these issues and pains.
Drunk plenty of water and stop the ketamine usage.
Enemas with olive oil even if the stool is so dry that it's hard to pass.
I've heard Tylenol can help but may not be good on the tummy. I personally have taken it intermittently because it gets so bad that you just have to.
Green tea, peppermint tea, ginger tea, lemon tea. The warm water bit helps and you can also use a hot water bottle to put on your stomach if you can't get in a hot bath.
Some people say midol, paracetamol, and I've tried the midol. I didn't notice a huge difference.
Magnesium chews were helpful, potassium pills I've heard also.
Take all of that for what it's worth. Gathered from other posts and tried from personal experience and read from medical reports online.
Pancreatitis or pancreas issues/gallbladder issues.
I've also read something about "Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction" which is a tube lining in or leading near the pancreas.
Again take all of that for what it's worth. The doctor/ specialist I would go see and am going to go see myself is a GI/Gastrointerologist.
Take care and lay off the k.
Water, water and more water my friend