SpiralusSancti
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2023
- Messages
- 2,301
I’m sure that in modern days with internet and even before reading trip reports has significant influence on experience some substance will produce. Sure that effect is minimal for opiods, downers in general and stimulants, in fact with all substances that aren’t really that influenced with set & setting and that produce consistent effects every time you take them.
But think about dreams, how you feel, what bothers you and what is happening in your life will to some extent manifest in dreams. And even with dreams, trying to interpret them in a way some “authority” says often leads to that interpretation seeming right but most people with insight about human mind and psych will conclude that’s a kind of self fulfilling prophecy, much like with people reading horoscope and subconsciously arranging things so it turns out horoscope is right.
Now back to trip reports. I think they have biggest influence on experience of “mild” psychedelics, mild in a sense they don’t produce fantastic levels of mindfuck. For strong psychedelics like LSD for example, in medium or high doses because of intensity of experience every trip is hugely different and slight change, be it in mindset or dose or whatever will tend to produce experience that feels like it’s not even the same substance. While on the other side, let’s say 2c-x produces much more consistent effects, intensity ofc changes with increased dose but nature of the trip after certain dose isn’t qualitatively nearly as changed as with LSD. For me two different trips on LSD, even on exact same dose regularly produce much more diverse experience than even to different 2c’s when dose is adjusted for similar intensity. Experiences on them share more similar flavor than two LSD experiences. I would say 2c-e was biggest exception for me looking back at that family of chemicals, while 2c-b, 2c-i, 2c-c, 2c-p, 2c-t-2/4 are easier to describe in a fashion of ranking how speedy or calming they are, how long they last, how “candy” are they and so on, surely still is unique but again, two different 2c’s regularly produce much more similar experience than LSD on two occasions. To what extent what we learn in advance about certain substance will influence trip? I think potentially it can be enormous influence on experience. I think that even basic things like is something relaxing or more speedy is affected by expectation. Reason I’m convinced in that is because the closer you get back in descriptions of certain substances the more diverse experiences are, and why time goes by, and especially when something becomes “mainstream” it seems like people tend to have more similar/relatable experiences. I think even if first reports on some substance seem kinda similar in nature it’s cuz they were more than likely tested by a group of friends who share background, some views on life and so on. I’m sure reports by Shulgins and their friends on then novel substances would vary by order of magnitude if same substances have been tested by people from different part of world, with more diverse levels of education and with broader world-views. Even if you consider things like mushrooms and mescaline, groups that use them traditionally and people who use them for fun and not as a sacrament incorporated in some belief system will have hugely different experiences. But than when new age “shamans” push psychedelics they’ll suck up people into their world-view and create certain expectations and mould otherwise so unpredictable drugs to produce much more predictable and unified experiences. In those cases like with otherwise very unpredictable stuff like DMT a lot of effort is needed to make it more consistent but most people I know who took DMT in presence of “shaman” had a lot more unified experiences compared to people who explore it by themselves or with close people without “guidance”. And now back to LSD, since it’s inception acid caused people to connect experience with notion that everything is perception, manifestation of mind, subjective experience, universe seeing trough eyes of a human and that same universe is endlessly diverse and ever-changing; I’m not saying all acid users think like that, ofc there’s huge diversity among world-views of users but accepting notion that everything is a matter of perception (and perception influenced by endless variety of factors) is rather common and that I think, even after so much years didn’t put LSD experiences to any kind of mold. While for example 2c-b, that since a very start was claimed to be exceptional aphrodisiac and in fact at first publicly sold as such in NL surely accumulated and increased such, let’s face it, mostly subjective description of that psychedelic more and more. As you hear from many people how great it’s for sex, take it with that expectation and with intention to have sexy time, more and more people on more and more occasions will have such aphrodisiac effects (not too unlike in food analogy with oysters). I too had great sex on 2c-b but so I did on other 2c’s and I think if basically since I was a child I read and heard about 2c-i as best drug for sex and proceeded into 2c-i trip with person who read, heard and expected the same I bet that would result in a very strong aphrodisiac effects, I’m open to idea that with that mindset 2c-i really could be “the ultimate sex drug” at right dose and would be just a different flavor of sexy time, being more speedy and a bit less “candy” than 2c-b.
If you’ve gone reading this far, reason for writing this is I think there’s beauty in taking something with 0 expectation or ideas of what you’ll experience. Knowing safe dose is enough. I take an example of my experience with BDF, I got it from a great person, I knew it was dosed consistently, that person never sold anything shitty and what he would consider without value and only a “cash crop” and with all that I not only ended having a lot less body load but in fact it was really pleasant both for body and mind. But person who took it but is more prone to suggestion experienced body load and didn’t find it nice while others I know who took it knowing they should not go beyond dose I told them is safe and not do some stupid combo all, like myself, had no body load and had a great experience.
With nbome’s those suspicious of RC’s ofc didn’t really liked it and cemented their stance, RCs are shitty and it’s best to stick with acid and other well knows stuff. But on the other side there was some girl who was really looking forward to it as it was her first ever psychedelic experience had a beautiful, life changing experience. If she took it like a “shitty fake acid” there’s a big possibility she would have freaked out on it like some do and had a bad experience.
And one of, for me more surprising situation was when bk-MDMA was around. People who didn’t think of it as “MDMA light” or “dangerous bath salt” all had great experience (and yeah, they all had fire MDMA many times before that). And in a “broken phone game” I was told by multiple people it’s best MDMA they had. And person telling me that (and how great his and experience of his friends was) after I told him, hey that was not MDMA, that’s bk-MDMA or methylone, how you forgot that? He said whatever, that’s bs, this is MDMA I’m sure.
Now if we scratch metaphysics and consider there’s some kind of collective mind, some kind of connection we are still not scientifically aware of and consider that something other might also mold experiences on psychoactive substances more and more as more people take them in a similar manner and with similar expectation, with time leading to more stereotypical experiences for that substance. I won’t go into such ideas beyond saying how only Christians get stigmas. And in fact it’s mostly among Catholics as they are more focused on suffering part of Jesus’s life.
I think that even with non-psychoactive drugs expectation and others peoples experiences certainly create stronger placebos and more effective drugs. Hell, it’s even proved that color and price of “sugar pills” affects their activity.
But think about dreams, how you feel, what bothers you and what is happening in your life will to some extent manifest in dreams. And even with dreams, trying to interpret them in a way some “authority” says often leads to that interpretation seeming right but most people with insight about human mind and psych will conclude that’s a kind of self fulfilling prophecy, much like with people reading horoscope and subconsciously arranging things so it turns out horoscope is right.
Now back to trip reports. I think they have biggest influence on experience of “mild” psychedelics, mild in a sense they don’t produce fantastic levels of mindfuck. For strong psychedelics like LSD for example, in medium or high doses because of intensity of experience every trip is hugely different and slight change, be it in mindset or dose or whatever will tend to produce experience that feels like it’s not even the same substance. While on the other side, let’s say 2c-x produces much more consistent effects, intensity ofc changes with increased dose but nature of the trip after certain dose isn’t qualitatively nearly as changed as with LSD. For me two different trips on LSD, even on exact same dose regularly produce much more diverse experience than even to different 2c’s when dose is adjusted for similar intensity. Experiences on them share more similar flavor than two LSD experiences. I would say 2c-e was biggest exception for me looking back at that family of chemicals, while 2c-b, 2c-i, 2c-c, 2c-p, 2c-t-2/4 are easier to describe in a fashion of ranking how speedy or calming they are, how long they last, how “candy” are they and so on, surely still is unique but again, two different 2c’s regularly produce much more similar experience than LSD on two occasions. To what extent what we learn in advance about certain substance will influence trip? I think potentially it can be enormous influence on experience. I think that even basic things like is something relaxing or more speedy is affected by expectation. Reason I’m convinced in that is because the closer you get back in descriptions of certain substances the more diverse experiences are, and why time goes by, and especially when something becomes “mainstream” it seems like people tend to have more similar/relatable experiences. I think even if first reports on some substance seem kinda similar in nature it’s cuz they were more than likely tested by a group of friends who share background, some views on life and so on. I’m sure reports by Shulgins and their friends on then novel substances would vary by order of magnitude if same substances have been tested by people from different part of world, with more diverse levels of education and with broader world-views. Even if you consider things like mushrooms and mescaline, groups that use them traditionally and people who use them for fun and not as a sacrament incorporated in some belief system will have hugely different experiences. But than when new age “shamans” push psychedelics they’ll suck up people into their world-view and create certain expectations and mould otherwise so unpredictable drugs to produce much more predictable and unified experiences. In those cases like with otherwise very unpredictable stuff like DMT a lot of effort is needed to make it more consistent but most people I know who took DMT in presence of “shaman” had a lot more unified experiences compared to people who explore it by themselves or with close people without “guidance”. And now back to LSD, since it’s inception acid caused people to connect experience with notion that everything is perception, manifestation of mind, subjective experience, universe seeing trough eyes of a human and that same universe is endlessly diverse and ever-changing; I’m not saying all acid users think like that, ofc there’s huge diversity among world-views of users but accepting notion that everything is a matter of perception (and perception influenced by endless variety of factors) is rather common and that I think, even after so much years didn’t put LSD experiences to any kind of mold. While for example 2c-b, that since a very start was claimed to be exceptional aphrodisiac and in fact at first publicly sold as such in NL surely accumulated and increased such, let’s face it, mostly subjective description of that psychedelic more and more. As you hear from many people how great it’s for sex, take it with that expectation and with intention to have sexy time, more and more people on more and more occasions will have such aphrodisiac effects (not too unlike in food analogy with oysters). I too had great sex on 2c-b but so I did on other 2c’s and I think if basically since I was a child I read and heard about 2c-i as best drug for sex and proceeded into 2c-i trip with person who read, heard and expected the same I bet that would result in a very strong aphrodisiac effects, I’m open to idea that with that mindset 2c-i really could be “the ultimate sex drug” at right dose and would be just a different flavor of sexy time, being more speedy and a bit less “candy” than 2c-b.
If you’ve gone reading this far, reason for writing this is I think there’s beauty in taking something with 0 expectation or ideas of what you’ll experience. Knowing safe dose is enough. I take an example of my experience with BDF, I got it from a great person, I knew it was dosed consistently, that person never sold anything shitty and what he would consider without value and only a “cash crop” and with all that I not only ended having a lot less body load but in fact it was really pleasant both for body and mind. But person who took it but is more prone to suggestion experienced body load and didn’t find it nice while others I know who took it knowing they should not go beyond dose I told them is safe and not do some stupid combo all, like myself, had no body load and had a great experience.
With nbome’s those suspicious of RC’s ofc didn’t really liked it and cemented their stance, RCs are shitty and it’s best to stick with acid and other well knows stuff. But on the other side there was some girl who was really looking forward to it as it was her first ever psychedelic experience had a beautiful, life changing experience. If she took it like a “shitty fake acid” there’s a big possibility she would have freaked out on it like some do and had a bad experience.
And one of, for me more surprising situation was when bk-MDMA was around. People who didn’t think of it as “MDMA light” or “dangerous bath salt” all had great experience (and yeah, they all had fire MDMA many times before that). And in a “broken phone game” I was told by multiple people it’s best MDMA they had. And person telling me that (and how great his and experience of his friends was) after I told him, hey that was not MDMA, that’s bk-MDMA or methylone, how you forgot that? He said whatever, that’s bs, this is MDMA I’m sure.
Now if we scratch metaphysics and consider there’s some kind of collective mind, some kind of connection we are still not scientifically aware of and consider that something other might also mold experiences on psychoactive substances more and more as more people take them in a similar manner and with similar expectation, with time leading to more stereotypical experiences for that substance. I won’t go into such ideas beyond saying how only Christians get stigmas. And in fact it’s mostly among Catholics as they are more focused on suffering part of Jesus’s life.
I think that even with non-psychoactive drugs expectation and others peoples experiences certainly create stronger placebos and more effective drugs. Hell, it’s even proved that color and price of “sugar pills” affects their activity.