I'm becoming more religious and into the bible a lot but have some questions...

[Z Y G G Y]

Why is the Bible so much like reading like the Torre (never read it just assumptions)?

Is the seven years that bankruptcy dissipates related to the big book cuz it say it in there?

Also the clean and unclean animals, Jewish people don't eat pork and it says in the bible not to. Can someone explain why that is so and should Christians following the bible not eat them also?

I'm like on page twelve so yeah...much more to read for me but I',m making it my only lecture until I finish it.

Why is there so much killing of brothers, battles b/w brothers, deceit among many good things I'm looking at. What;s that about?

Please help me. I need God in my life to guide me and be with me, he is with me but I need to feel it more.

 

[Belisarius]

Ah, you're running into the fundamental wall of the Bible, especially when it comes to the Old Testament--it was never meant for Christians, or I should say, the post-Enlightenment West, let alone the people of the year 2011. The Jews have thousands of years of commentary on the finer points of the Torah and the later books, which for Christians is limited to the New Testament and other (very post-hoc) exegeses.

I could ramble on indefinitely about this, but I'll keep it simple, even though it will sound like a cop-out to many. And, that is: Read the Bible for what resonates with you. Stoning adulterers won't resonate with you; love your neighbor as yourself might, though. Yes, this is basically cherry-picking, but that's what devout people do anyway; I'm not Christian, and never will be, but even I think there are some things in that work worth remembering. This is something we do all the time; how many novels and short stories have you read that left you with some truth that seemed perfectly elucidated for the first time, and which remain so despite your knowledge that they never ocurred?

If this post sounds a little strange, I'm pretty drunk right now. But, I think the gist of it still stands: if you want something that feels true, you're going to have to deal with a little contradiction, because people are inherently so. As Whitman once wrote in "Song of Myself":

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes...

 

[Jamshyd]

Good advice as usual, bel .

---

Zig: There is nothing wrong with getting into the nitty-gritty of a text that you find inspirational . In fact, it is healthy.

My own personal advice regarding the bible is thus:

- If you are a Christian, I advise starting with the New Testament, maybe with a study-guide that tells you who all these people and where all these places were, and study THAT intently.

- After reading it all, of the gospels, find one that you feel makes most sense to you and focus on it until you grasp it well.

- From there, go through the other gospels and compare and contrast (basic hermeneutics).

- AFTER you have the NT down pat, and think you like what you see, THEN go to the Old Testament - and read it as a BACKGROUND STORY, not as something to follow. The two books were written MILLENNIA apart and are effectively two very different things.

- By the time you get to the old testament, having mastered the NT, you ought to be able to discern what, exactly, of the old testament applies to the teachings of Jesus, and what doesn't.

- Aristotle tells us to "start from the middle," so I must've done something rite

---

My PERSONAL preferences (I am approaching christiantity this way):

- Learn Koine greek and read your favourite gospel in that language.

- Read the NT in Syriac after learning THAT language...

- Learn Hebrew and read the relevant parts of the OT in that language (My personal favourite is Kohelet / "Ecclesiastes") .

- Most importantly, use the Gnostic Texts as canon, and the bible itself as apocrypha... but that's just me .

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Ah, you're running into the fundamental wall of the Bible, especially when it comes to the Old Testament--it was never meant for Christians, or I should say, the post-Enlightenment West, let alone the people of the year 2011. The Jews have thousands of years of commentary on the finer points of the Torah and the later books, which for Christians is limited to the New Testament and other (very post-hoc) exegeses.

I could ramble on indefinitely about this, but I'll keep it simple, even though it will sound like a cop-out to many. And, that is: Read the Bible for what resonates with you. Stoning adulterers won't resonate with you; love your neighbor as yourself might, though. Yes, this is basically cherry-picking, but that's what devout people do anyway; I'm not Christian, and never will be, but even I think there are some things in that work worth remembering. This is something we do all the time; how many novels and short stories have you read that left you with some truth that seemed perfectly elucidated for the first time, and which remain so despite your knowledge that they never ocurred?

If this post sounds a little strange, I'm pretty drunk right now. But, I think the gist of it still stands: if you want something that feels true, you're going to have to deal with a little contradiction, because people are inherently so. As Whitman once wrote in "Song of Myself":

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes...

Thanks so much for the response. I didn't think many would respond so deeply.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

I just want God to guide me. I feel that he/she is in all of us. We just have ti find a way to get there...I feel it's my time to embrace by God gene.

Zig: There is nothing wrong with getting into the nitty-gritty of a text that you find inspirational . In fact, it is healthy.[/QUOTE

Thanks so much for responding, I am glad you shared your wisdom. Please keep it coming. This goes to Belisarius also. I am glad you think it's a good idea and healthy. I have a feeling that many people who consider themselves Bible people have never read it. Wish it wasn't like that. Glad my family is down for all the new stories I learn each day. I made it my only lecture for the time being.

]

If you are a Christian, I advise starting with the New Testament, maybe with a study-guide that tells you who all these people and where all these places were, and study THAT intently.

I was raise catholic but considered myself atheist all my life til now. I have a gook with both the new and old testaments.
I thought about making a little road map on my own and then researching the people I am interested in. It's always better to remember my own road maps that somebody else.

- After reading it all, of the gospels, find one that you feel makes most sense to you and focus on it until you grasp it well.

I have some quotes I an wring down and keeping on flashcards at all times with me so I can repeat them if necessary and it's easier to learn them that way. I read the Polish version cuz its it's the only one I got. But it doesn't matter anyways, It's still not in Hebrew.

- Aristotle tells us to "start from the middle," so I must've done something rite

mmm. interesting one

My PERSONAL preferences (I am approaching Christianity this way):

- Learn Koine greek and read your favorite gospel in that language.

- Read the NT in Syriac after learning THAT language...

- Learn Hebrew and read the relevant parts of the OT in that language (My personal favorite is Kohelet / "Ecclesiastes")

I'm learning Spanish for work and that takes enough time as it is plus I have kid and school and stuff. I can't learn these languages at all, no time.


Thanks so much. You have given me a lot of new things to put into practice. Thanks again.
kind spirit.

Another things is I will probably start wring a journal on different parts I have read and and publish some of it here so we can maybe help each other understand more of this stuff. I know lots of people here hare good with the Book.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Ah, you're running into the fundamental wall of the Bible, especially when it comes to the Old Testament--it was never meant for Christians, or I should say, the post-Enlightenment West, let alone the people of the year 2011. The Jews have thousands of years of commentary on the finer points of the Torah and the later books, which for Christians is limited to the New Testament and other (very post-hoc) exegeses.

I could ramble on indefinitely about this, but I'll keep it simple, even though it will sound like a cop-out to many. And, that is: Read the Bible for what resonates with you. Stoning adulterers won't resonate with you; love your neighbor as yourself might, though. Yes, this is basically cherry-picking, but that's what devout people do anyway; I'm not Christian, and never will be, but even I think there are some things in that work worth remembering. This is something we do all the time; how many novels and short stories have you read that left you with some truth that seemed perfectly elucidated for the first time, and which remain so despite your knowledge that they never ocurred?

If this post sounds a little strange, I'm pretty drunk right now. But, I think the gist of it still stands: if you want something that feels true, you're going to have to deal with a little contradiction, because people are inherently so. As Whitman once wrote in "Song of Myself":

Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes...

No worried about sounding/being drunk. This is BL after all. It's allowed.

Was wondering...how similar is Torah to the Bible and it seems like we all were chosen people. Like the clean and dirt animals, its what Jewish do and also the circumcision.

Is it possible for a Catholic to get into the Torah, is it a good idea?

Also its said there will be no more floods that will destroyed the Earth. I don't really buy that, but I'm obviously not taking what it says at face value.

God is God is what it seems to me. It what keeps the world going. The energy that make rxns and the blood flowing in our veins.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

Please give more more. I will come back with specific questions from the text as much as possible if anyone is interested.

Not the most appropriate site for this I might think, thou I question it of course. I am interested in becoming closer to God in general, not specif to one religion. Bible is just something I've always been around so I chose that as my beginning/start as there will be much more. I'd like to be a pastor one day.

 

[Jabberwocky]

There are so many different ways to go about studying any scripture.

Its my belief that something that can make almost any religious/spiritual become wacky and that is the having a need to force everything into being consistent and logical. Having a bit of room for "I may not be getting it" and "Some parts might be glitches or miscommunicated" seems to make for better personal finding a personal connection and reasonableness about building a rapport with a body of religious thought in my opinion.

I'm not arguing against faith or conviction just against every feeling a need to get fired up certitude in response to ambiguity or doubt.

 

[vegan]

Also the clean and unclean animals, Jewish people don't eat pork and it says in the bible not to. Can someone explain why that is so and should Christians following the bible not eat them also?

because at the different times the three books of the religions of the book were written, they didn't have frezzers and pork was a meat that would rot very fast
so it was easy to eat "after the use-by-date" pork and get sick

nothing religious about that
just one point among others that shows that the books are nothing more than humans' writing

Why is there so much killing of brothers, battles b/w brothers, deceit among many good things I'm looking at. What;s that about?

you could ask the same today
the various stories that were compiled into those books only reflect what humans saw was happening at the time
nothing divine about them

Please help me. I need God in my life to guide me and be with me, he is with me but I need to feel it more.

how about becoming more spiritual, rather than more religious (=brainwashed)

 

[panic in paradise]

im on a similar need-of-knowledge
" Journey from Texts to Translations, The: The Origin and Development of the Bible "
seems a good companion, that ill be getting with the Old and New Testament...

what Jams said is what ive been curious about,;-) and i feel strongly that Gnosis is the fundamental origin of different faiths...
this can not be ignored, there are many Gnostic sects, but go BC, go way way back.
then see Gnostic-Christianity, this is part of my learning schematic.

the other part, is another part altogether.
i would recommend with alll urge, to read and understand the Penguin Classic publishing of "The Epic of Gilgamesh".
theres too much to be ignored, and still more to be found...

Jamshyd mentioned starting in the middle, yes, this is a great place to be, not as restricting or overwhelming as it sounds - the opposite really.
but if you dont start from there, finding yourself there is whats most important at the end of the day.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

There are so many different ways to go about studying any scripture.

1)Its my belief that something that can make almost any religious/spiritual become wacky and that is the having a need to force everything into being consistent and logical. 2Having a bit of room for "I may not be getting it" and "Some parts might be glitches or miscommunicated" seems to make for better personal finding a personal connection and reasonableness about building a rapport with a body of religious thought in my opinion.

I'm not arguing against faith or conviction just against every feeling a need to get fired up certitude in response to ambiguity or doubt.

1)totally not me luckily. I' very open minded. I m making it about understanding why people are so into the bible and what am I missing.

2. I try to talk about the parts I don't get. Don't take things too literal. The times were different.

I think I try to take the good parts and try to take the bad parts with a grain of salt or leave them if necessary.

And will never talk about it unless just discussing it with those close to me who are interested already. Unless asked first.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

because at the different times the three books of the religions of the book were written, they didn't have frezzers and pork was a meat that would rot very fast
so it was easy to eat "after the use-by-date" pork and get sick

nothing religious about that
just one point among others that shows that the books are nothing more than humans' writing

you could ask the same today
the various stories that were compiled into those books only reflect what humans saw was happening at the time
nothing divine about them

how about becoming more spiritual, rather than more religious (=brainwashed)

why do you sound so angry? like you want to eat me alive. Wait, u're vegan. Oops

I am not reading the books because I think God wrote them, I want to know more about what's the hype about these books. It's pretty obvious to me that people wrote them. There has to be some knowledge there, I hope to find it and hope that it does make me more spiritual.

I guess u can't read b/w the lines. I don't really feel like explaining what I'm doing here and my goals, it's almost 3am and I just had my baby baptized and we had a big family get together after that. Tired.

 

[IamMe90]

of course some people are going to be aggressive, a lot of people don't like Christianity for good reason, and a lot more people don't like Christians that have to glean spirituality and guidance from an inconsistent and "uncommunicative" (as enki euphemistically put it... lol) book

look, if you want to be spiritual/religious and use the bible toward this end, that's fine. But don't turn into an actual biblethumper... that is, don't let the book change beliefs you hold and know to be true/right.

it's easy for people to get a little jumpy when it comes to this subject, I would try to understand before getting too upset at some of the responses. For instance, as a homosexual it is sometimes pretty hard not to jump down the throats of every bible-based Christian, automatically assuming them to be evil, bigoted homophobes. But, I'm aware that not all Christians or bible readers are like this, so I stop myself... just consider other people might not be able to control their disdain/contempt so easily and give them some leniency i would advise.

i suppose my only question is why you feel the need (or even desire) to glean spirituality from the bible. almost all of the basic/significant moral precepts and guidance tools in the bible (such as most commandments and whatnot, the important ones that aren't grounded in historical context) are 1) just basic moral intuitions that the majority of us can figure out for ourselves without the bible, and 2) have been diffused throughout western culture to the point where almost none of us can grow up without at least learning about basic Christian morals (that are, as stated before, often basic human morals) - you already have them.

good luck with your search anyway though!

 

[discountsnow]

It has been my experience that people often do become aggressive when the subject of religion come's up.

Keep in mind that the Christian life is a marathon not a sprint. It is far more important to finish the race.

Rest assured God is in control, He knows your heart, He knows your needs, and He directs your path. So don't worry if you don't feel it.

Just continue to read your bible and then do it. Be a doer. The Christian life is not easy. The walk is really hard. If I had known how hard it was at the start not sure I would have taken those first steps, however knowing what I know today I would never turn back.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

^
Nice post. Thanks for being understanding of my journey. It's not about the bible. The book is just one of the many tools I will use to become a better person.

You seem to get things, what I'm trying to do.

i suppose my only question is why you feel the need (or even desire) to glean spirituality from the bible.

because I want more than what I have learned through our culture which often doesn't follow these morals

simply put...I want more knowledge

 

[vegan]

why do you sound so angry?

because you read it. you didn't hear it

if you had heard my voice, you'd know this was an advice/suggestion and not whatever you think it is

i didn't say anything about you not knowing that the bible was not the word of "god" but just tales written by men
i mentioned it to answer you question about eating pork

if you saw anger in that, get ready for a tough ride in life

(for all the posters who regularly misinterpret my posts, i have convinctions, not anger)
i sometimes say things frankly. don't mistake it for anger


but as IamMe90 said, people have very good reasons to be angry at religions

listen to the news, read any history book, try to be free in a religious country


about the books, few people have problems with others reading them
read the bible in its first greek version if you want, so as not to get any translation mistakes
it's certainly interesting

a few weeks ago i saw the koran in a book shop and i almost bought it. but i just don't have the time now. the last greene book has been on my shelf since the day it came out in shops but i haven't had time for it either

but asking "Why is there so much killing of brothers, battles b/w brothers..."
is like asking "why does gollum die at the end of the lord of the rings"

the bible is a fantasy tale mixed with some "good" intentions and many stupid prejudices and beliefs

Rest assured God is in control,

thank you my god for being in control of this wonderful world and making b/millions suffer just to test my faith

don't forget to put me on the heaven list. i waste time praying when i could be helping people just to be sure that you won't put me on the wrong list

Please help me. I need God in my life to guide me and be with me

i wrote this 2 days ago in another thread vv

one big step towards being at peace with everything is understanding and accepting that some things don't have a purpose

there may be an explanation as to why they exist, but they don't need a purpose to exist

life is much easier once you've accepted that

rephrase it, replace "purpose" with "god"
and you won't need anyone's help anymore

 

[Z Y G G Y]

also sorry about the vegan joke, wasn't meant to be malicious. I'm sure you are used to them by now anyways.

the bible is a fantasy tale mixed with some "good" intentions and many stupid prejudices and beliefs

agreed

I'm reading the Polish version cuz its the only one I got at home. I'm looking for the good parts. Just started the new testament. The part about the guy who was crazied(sp?) by the demon (gotta translate myself into English) and couldn't talk, then Jesus touched him and he went on his way talking and was left by the demon. Stuff like that , believe me, I don't take literally. And all the parts about people that were sick and then were healthy from the touch of Jesus. Dunno what to think of that. Why is that there?

I don't really want to go to a Christian site. Maybe later.

OK...here is what got me into this whole religion/spirituality thing is that all these people who I respect in my own life are religious. Plus all these other great people that aren't in my life for various reasons. I see that light in their eyes and that peace I want. And they are always willing to go the extra mile for me.Well, not all but someone religious/spiritual (real, not fake just for show) is more willing to be a good person than an atheist. Because they care about their spirituality and grow and nurture it inside. I want that. Not to be a crazy christian just for show. It's not how I roll anyways.

I want my life to be a good journey from now on. I did bad things and I don't want to anymore so I am holding on to any tool I have.

That's why I ask for help here.

Thanks to those who took the time to help me and give me guidance.

Please don't stop.

 

[Z Y G G Y]

why is most of the world religious, as opposed to the other ways around?

 

[DOB]

Why is the Bible so much like reading like the Torre (never read it just assumptions)?

Is the seven years that bankruptcy dissipates related to the big book cuz it say it in there?

Also the clean and unclean animals, Jewish people don't eat pork and it says in the bible not to. Can someone explain why that is so and should Christians following the bible not eat them also?

I'm like on page twelve so yeah...much more to read for me but I',m making it my only lecture until I finish it.

Why is there so much killing of brothers, battles b/w brothers, deceit among many good things I'm looking at. What;s that about?

Please help me. I need God in my life to guide me and be with me, he is with me but I need to feel it more.

Bible have some good points but most of it is dangerous brainwash lies crap psychotoxic garbage,I warned you.I am glad that I reed it whole but if you plan to believe it all,that would be evil

 

[panic in paradise]

why is most of the world religious, as opposed to the other ways around?

the percentages of this, in alll honesty would be very interesting...

Fear

christianity is a fear based, spiritual bastardizing scheme. "scheme", not religion (a taught schematic of thought), it is a creation based upon Gnostic and Sumerian theory/art/literature/mythology/beliefs/faiths/morals. they slaughtered any one or many, and much worse that didnt agree that their conception of good was now thee' more powerful conception of evil. convincing these people to believe other-wise or be tortured, and your families burned. then maybe die, but only leave earth to an existence beyond our ability to perceive, at their proFit.

and this is maybe the most tragic piece of human history...


Christ existed Aeons before christianity.
Jesus was a vessel, is a vessel, christianity in a sense only took his corpse and stint on earth to show and hide in... such a spirit could never exist is these stories, wholey.


- youre either with us, or you are against us -
...
well what are they actually for?
nothing says not to find out,, but the implementation of fear, is rather diverting from the cause of self.



- Jesus is of Life Love and Light.
to understand these thre3 things, is to understand god further in yourself, as is