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Experiences Ideas from different worldviews/faiths that inspire you.

mal3volent

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So I just came across this random clip and I thought it was fascinating and contained a lesson that I actually really appreciated (and was quite moved by).

Then I began thinking how even more extraordinary it was that I here I am, a guy who was raised southern Baptist, became a militant atheist as a teenager, and have since progressed into what I would describe as a hopeful agnostic with a few spiritual leanings... who has also never been persuaded or impressed by Jordan Peterson as a thinker/communicator... being inspired by a random clip of said person retelling a story from the Bible I heard in what seems like a previous life...



Just the idea of possessing knowledge or a strongly based belief, and the moral imperative there is within a person to express it or share it with others, and the duty we all have to each other as a society of individuals.

And then I thought, I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience? Hopefully I might be able to come up with some more of my own.
 
I haven't listened to the entire discussion yet but I will. I'm no fan of Peterson and I have mixed feelings about Maher, but I'll try to keep an open mind.
... I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience?
One thing that has always struck me as significant is the fact that every religion (yes, every single one!) has some version of the Golden Rule ("Don't be a dick") in it.

Whether you follow a certain belief system or whether you believe in a Supreme Being or not, it seems like a good idea:

Try to be kind.
 
I haven't listened to the entire discussion yet but I will. I'm no fan of Peterson and I have mixed feelings about Maher, but I'll try to keep an open mind.

One thing that has always struck me as significant is the fact that every religion (yes, every single one!) has some version of the Golden Rule ("Don't be a dick") in it.

Whether you follow a certain belief system or whether you believe in a Supreme Being or not, it seems like a good idea:

Try to be kind.
it's nature: survival of the kindest.
see dogs, for example. the descendants of *kind* wolves, they are one of the most successful species
 
it's nature: survival of the kindest.
see dogs, for example. the descendants of *kind* wolves, they are one of the most successful species
My favourite example is the humble tree. The climax of the plant kingdom. They provide shelter and food for birds, often have symbiotic relationships with microbes in the soil, protect the forest streams from the parching Sun (and all the life therein), provide us with versatile material as humans for warmth and construction, and probably some stuff we're not aware of. That canopy of leaves is like one big free hug for so many other species.
Just the idea of possessing knowledge or a strongly based belief, and the moral imperative there is within a person to express it or share it with others, and the duty we all have to each other as a society of individuals.
If you find something, you should pass it on.

I have never been particularly captivated by any religious systems in particular. The only person who has ever inspired me was when I heard Terence McKenna for the first time. I wasn't and still am not a big psychonaut, and I don't agree with everything he says, and whilst the wisdom of the past has relevance.. the synthesis of understanding he presented I found to have far more resonance.

That's what is missing I feel, and what I think people are really looking for. And what Peterson is glancing on (not what he says, but how he says it). The human element in all of this. First, Know Thy Self.
 
So I just came across this random clip and I thought it was fascinating and contained a lesson that I actually really appreciated (and was quite moved by).

Then I began thinking how even more extraordinary it was that I here I am, a guy who was raised southern Baptist, became a militant atheist as a teenager, and have since progressed into what I would describe as a hopeful agnostic with a few spiritual leanings... who has also never been persuaded or impressed by Jordan Peterson as a thinker/communicator... being inspired by a random clip of said person retelling a story from the Bible I heard in what seems like a previous life...



Just the idea of possessing knowledge or a strongly based belief, and the moral imperative there is within a person to express it or share it with others, and the duty we all have to each other as a society of individuals.

And then I thought, I wonder if anyone else has had a similar experience? Hopefully I might be able to come up with some more of my own.

Interesting - I watched most of this clip (I have some work to get back to so I couldn't go through all of it) and got through the jonah part where Bill starts to see that there is some wisdom baked into these "stupid stories" and Peterson presses that the way to teach messages starts with storytelling, which creates sort of a dream state at first.

I'll finish watching in a bit but I had a thought about this.

In the work The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind Julian Janes looks at literature to explore where consciousness starts to show up in ancient writing. His conclusion is essentially that modern human consciousness emerges sometime between the Iliad and the Odyssey being written which tracks to about the time of the Greek Dark Ages after the late bronze age collapse - this is when Mycenaean Greece goes from being an established empire with culture and progress being made, and then falls apart, cities become abandoned and knowledge is lost.

Janes concludes that part of the reason for the collapse was the emergence of modern consciousness. He believes that humans had been operating in a bi-cameral mind (left brain/right brain) and not a synthesized mind as most modern humans do. Because of the creation of trade routes and the need to pass on information between various cultures that were all developing in different ways across the ancient world, things had to be communicated through the use of metaphor so that different cultures could understand concepts that were shared. The use of metaphor triggers neurological activity between the two hemispheres of the brain, communicating back and forth between the hemispheres, which causes humans to become conscious. He suggests that prior to this emergence, humans would likely experience command auditory hallucinations (voice of the gods) in their mind which would dictate actions they should take - comparing this to the experience of folks with schizophrenia in the modern day. As these voices ceased, humans felt the gods were abandoning them and through becoming conscious, became suddenly afraid of the societies around them, with warfare and climate change occuring, they believed they'd angered the gods and scattered as a result. Since they became increasingly capable of critical thinking, it also lead to a sort of independent volition which had previously not existed, and was likely terrifying to people despite it actually being an evolutionary process.

Peterson is noting how the use of stories as metaphors were the methods through which wisdom was shared, and these were being written around this very time in history. Ancient writings do not demonstrate introspection - that is "i thought about.. I felt... I wanted" it was more "He did this and it was good". There isn't a self awareness present until The Odyssey where Odysseus remarks on missing his wife back home and wanting to complete his journey safely. There are examples of self-awareness present that had been absent in the Iliad, which is where Janes draws his conclusion that this marks the departure point from pre-modern consciousness and modern consciousness.
 
There are examples of self-awareness present that had been absent in the Iliad, which is where Janes draws his conclusion that this marks the departure point from pre-modern consciousness and modern consciousness.
I can't remember where I heard it, but there was something about the human perception of colour back in those days being limited to only a subset of what we can see now. I think it was red, yellow, and possibly green. Can't recall exactly what it was. Terence McKenna made reference to 'the voice of the Gods' falling silent during the Greek period as well, probably referring to Julian Janes.

You might be interested in the book by Richard Bucke, 'Cosmic Consciousness' (it's over 100 years old, so the PDF is free now), which points to where we may be heading next. It catalogues his own, and many notable persons through history, experiences of that transcendental state. I tend to agree with is assessment that it is imminent for the human species, and I also believe that is what all the fuss and rush towards a totalitarian world order is all about.. they know it's coming, and are afraid people might develop some faculty that places them beyond any means of control.

Though I'm also not sold on the idea that the evolution of consciousness is a linear thing. It is entirely possible humanity, or a previous iteration/civilization, has been through it already. Language is believed to have emerged 70,000 years ago, and our own civilization is barely a few thousand years old. That leaves a hell of a lot of time in between for one or more civilizations to have come and gone.
 
I can't remember where I heard it, but there was something about the human perception of colour back in those days being limited to only a subset of what we can see now. I think it was red, yellow, and possibly green. Can't recall exactly what it was. Terence McKenna made reference to 'the voice of the Gods' falling silent during the Greek period as well, probably referring to Julian Janes.
The color blue is notable for having not been mentioned in ancient writings: https://www.discovermagazine.com/th...is-actually-a-relatively-recent-hue-to-humans

Again, the Odyssey is noted as Homer describes things like the sky as being the color of 'Copper' or 'Iron' and the sea being 'Wine Like' all things we know today that would unlikely to be used to describe something we know as blue. This theory is controversial with some arguing that you can't wholly rely on these types of examples as language changes over time, mistranslation occurs, and analogy/metaphor has advanced in how we utilize it. That said, the above writeup does a nice job of exploring why blue may in fact be a color that did not become widely recognized until late in human history, outside of Ancient Egypt (as lapis lazuli was available to them).
You might be interested in the book by Richard Bucke, 'Cosmic Consciousness' (it's over 100 years old, so the PDF is free now), which points to where we may be heading next. It catalogues his own, and many notable persons through history, experiences of that transcendental state. I tend to agree with is assessment that it is imminent for the human species, and I also believe that is what all the fuss and rush towards a totalitarian world order is all about.. they know it's coming, and are afraid people might develop some faculty that places them beyond any means of control.
I'll check it out - interesting as one could speculate that the suppression of psychedelics is, and always has been, rooted in a desire to maintain control. I recall reading that the first drug prohibition to occur in the Americas was the prohibition of psilocybin mushrooms which were used as an entheogen of course by the Mayan and Aztec civilizations. The Spanish would slaughter the 'mushroom cults' and burn them when found - they believed it gave the indigenous the power to conjure terrible magick that could be used against the christian colonialists.
Though I'm also not sold on the idea that the evolution of consciousness is a linear thing. It is entirely possible humanity, or a previous iteration/civilization, has been through it already. Language is believed to have emerged 70,000 years ago, and our own civilization is barely a few thousand years old. That leaves a hell of a lot of time in between for one or more civilizations to have come and gone.
I often think about just how long a period of time humans have existed, and how much time past between historical events... if you lived in 10,000 BC, you were living much further away from the events of most of the old testament than we do today - not to mention humans who lived 30,000 years prior to that... 5x the duration of time between the beginning of the neolithic and now.

There has been some speculation that Janes' bicameral mind could be a way to consider the vastly different expressions of human experience when the Spanish met the Aztecs - perhaps the Spanish were encountering advanced bicameral humans whose relative dominance of surrounding areas along with geographic isolation from other advanced civilizations, prevented the evolution of consciousness in the same way, leading instead to a form of magical consciousness that facilitated profound cosmological understanding and the ability to commune with spirits in a way that had long been forgotten in other parts of the world. It's incredibly difficult to make heads or tails of any of this, but fascinating to contemplate nonetheless.
 
The color blue is notable for having not been mentioned in ancient writings: https://www.discovermagazine.com/th...is-actually-a-relatively-recent-hue-to-humans

Again, the Odyssey is noted as Homer describes things like the sky as being the color of 'Copper' or 'Iron' and the sea being 'Wine Like' all things we know today that would unlikely to be used to describe something we know as blue. This theory is controversial with some arguing that you can't wholly rely on these types of examples as language changes over time, mistranslation occurs, and analogy/metaphor has advanced in how we utilize it.
That's the one. I don't find it controversial at all, but then I'm not an active subscriber to the mainstream narrative on just about anything haha. But seriously, I don't see why it should be controversial at all given what we understand about perception; that it's not the physical apparatus but the mind which constructs the worldview we see. If it can flip the retinal image upside down, if it can see things which aren't real (hypnosis), then there may be an evolution or growth in the minds capability separate from the physical apparatus.
I'll check it out - interesting as one could speculate that the suppression of psychedelics is, and always has been, rooted in a desire to maintain control.
Ricard Bucke was sober when he experienced it, as I imagine many of the others listed in his book were (Francis Bacon, Goethe, Blake). And yes, I absolutely believe psychedelics have been kept illegal because of the potential they hold. Whether this was a conscious deliberation or not, is the question. I think there's a possibility that the decision was made intuitively, through the elites, by culture itself.. digressing into another topic here, but I believe culture is an egregore and out of self-preservation it exerted pressure through them.
There has been some speculation that Janes' bicameral mind could be a way to consider the vastly different expressions of human experience when the Spanish met the Aztecs - perhaps the Spanish were encountering advanced bicameral humans whose relative dominance of surrounding areas along with geographic isolation from other advanced civilizations, prevented the evolution of consciousness in the same way, leading instead to a form of magical consciousness that facilitated profound cosmological understanding and the ability to commune with spirits in a way that had long been forgotten in other parts of the world. It's incredibly difficult to make heads or tails of any of this, but fascinating to contemplate nonetheless.
Given the history we know about the RC Church, and the examples of other cultures/tribal peoples (e.g. Australian aborigine) that display completely different ontological constructions of reality, which in themselves defy our own paradigm, I have no doubt in my mind that the history we're told about the Spanish conquests of the America's is a complete whitewash. To the point, I think they plain made up the stuff about human sacrifice and the barbarism, in order to absolve themselves from what they did.. which was eviscerate a parallel civilization, and possibly quite a benign one too.

It's possible they retained a magical state of consciousness, not 'descending into history' as McKenna calls it. It's also possible that, again, this thing isn't a linear progression. I think of the writings by Joseph Chilton Pearce, about transcendence actually being our natural state, and how it has a definite biological basis.. which gets blocked by the cultural process itself. I'm more inclined to the latter conclusion personally.

I think it was the conquest of the America's and the encounters with a vastly different style of human that really clued the RC Church into things, ultimately leading to Jesuit's like Teilhard de Chardin speculating on the future of human consciousness - I think he probably got his ideas from reading their private materials.
 
For me it has been living in other countries and learning other languages that blew my mind open to the very notion of epistemology. Then I learned traditional chinese medicine in a 4 year school program, which involves seeing the body through Daoist/Buddhist/Chinese cosmology. It was mind warping in a really neat way to learn all that, after learning Mandarin.

In order to really learn another language, you have to learn its culture. The two are inseparable. If you are really making a go of it, it starts to reprogram the very way you see the world. There are things in Chinese I don't know how to say in English and vice versa. I also know French, and it's a similar phenomenon. There's a linguistics concept... that every human is born with "universal grammar," and then they just overlay the language of their parentage on top of it. That's why all languages have commonalities. I think that's true to some extent, but I also think culture creates such huge differences that a lot of translations aren't accurate.

I would say the Hindu, Buddhist and Daoist diasporas have influenced me the most when it comes to religion. At first it was conceptual, then it became experiential when I had ongoing near death experiences. Nothing truly explains the Truth, but they come close. I can walk in and out of any religious institution now and connect with its meaning... and yet, no religious institution is exactly correct to me anymore.

All I know is that consciousness precedes and succeeds this physical reality, while also being part of it.
 
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