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I need advice on getting off subs!!

3

<3mychi's

Greenlighter
Joined
Jun 25, 2010
Messages
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Hi all, this is my first post here and I am in a really desperate spot. In short, I've battled addiction to opiates and alcohol for about 8 years. I started to get clean time when I got pregnant in 2014 but relapsed right after my daughter was born.

I suffered a back and head injury when she was 3 months old and I got norcos for the pain. It was a reckless decision on my part bc it started me right back on the destructive path of addiction. So, a year ago I went back on subutex to get off the norcos. The problem is, the unexpected demands of being a new mom, and also recovering from a very serious brain injury, I quickly started to abuse that too. I did stop the alcohol, bc that is what caused the brain injury (fell on my head when I seized from withdrawal). So the subutex gave me an energy, much like the norcos did, and without any other crutch to help me with my new struggles, I let subutex be my new DOC.

So after months of struggling with that- running out of my script early and then suffering wd for days until my new script then doing it all over- I started back on the norcos. So basically I flop between the two right now. I tried many times to just go back to subs, but the 4mg/day dose I'm prescribed just isn't enough. I've read so many forums and articles and tried numerous ways to try to get it under control and I just can't. On top of it, I started classes to become a certified alcohol and drug counselor bc during my periods of sobriety I decided it's my calling and I want to make this my career.

So the reason I'm very alone in this is because,
  1. My fiancé/ baby's dad does not know I've relapsed on the norcos and he would probably leave if he knew. He's also recovering on subs but does marijuana maintenance too. He's just fed up with my constant relapsing.
  2. I don't want to open up about my situation to my fellows in recovery here bc I fear it's going to hinder my progress on getting into counseling bc u have to have so much sober time.

I want so so badly to be done with the subs and norcos but I just can't. The biggest obstacle right now is my 2 yr old daughter. I can't spend 5 days laying in bed withdrawing bc she needs a lot of attention. I can't go to detox or rehab because I don't have insurance or money. So my last thought on kicking it is to stop subs for a week and only take norco so I can reduce the subs that are built up in my system.

As you may know, subs have a long half life so the wd from them is very drawn out. Then I could re-induct myself on subs at hopefully a lower dose and then just do a quick taper. I'm wondering if anyone has any thought, recommendations, experiences? I am really ready to get off these and I know that discomfort is going to be a part of it but I'm trying to reduce the wd as much as possible to give myself a fighting chance to be done once and for all.

Nothing about active use is fun anymore. It's just pure misery and I have been consumed day and night trying to figure out how to beat this. To give an idea, I take about 30-40 norco 10/325 per day. Some days I'll take 2-4 mg of sub, a few days I'll take 8 if I saved it from the day before. I've only been taking the norco for a month now but it's draining my savings.

I'm terrified to look for work or start on anything in my life bc I know I need to get off this first. Help please!!!
 
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I was hoping to hear from somebody. Even just having support out there would mean a lot. I'm fighting depression over this whole nightmare. I wish I could just take a week off from life and responsibilities and just detox but I can't. This thing has been drawn out so long and I just want it gone. I'm on day 4 of norco only and I want to try to make it to 6 days then reinduct on subs again. I'm reading and praying and trying to prepare mentally for this wd. I still have school until December and ideally should wait until break but I can't afford it. So I'm really going into this with a lot of fear and crappy timing. Any support would be so appreciated. I feel so terribly alone right now.
 
It sounds like you would benefit from the more stringent and regulated environment of the methadone clinic. I had a similar problem using Suboxone and Subutex, running out early and/or using my medication in inappropriate ways.

Methadone is a much more effective medication when it comes to serious cravings for opioids. It is an enormous commitment, having to get to the clinic every day for the first few months before you get take homes, having to put up with all the rules and regulations.

If you are able to commit to your recovery and follow the rules, avoiding illegal drugs in your area and just sticking with your medication, staying on a reasonable dose of methadone will kill your cravings, allow you to function like a normal person, and help you learn to better manage work, school and family. We will be here to support you regardless of what you decide. Personally speaking, methadone turned out to be the best thing did for myself in early recovery.

What part of the world do you live in? It will help us get a better idea of whether methadone is a viable option for you.

If you do choose to go that route, please remember to keep your chosen treatment as hush hush as possible. There is incredibly harm and debilitating stigma against MMT patients in most American recovery circles. You have to be very strategic about who you let on that you use that particular medication, and in how you talk to them about it. I'm not saying you should keep it a secret, just saying you should be careful if you are interested in going into that particular industry.
 
I know this isn't terribly helpful, but it sounds like you would really benefit from having someone who absolutely, unconditionally has your back right now. If there's nobody local, maybe someone you could talk to by phone?

For what it's worth, I recently had *some* similar circumstances... i.e. I had relapsed and nobody knew. The secret had me backed into a corner I could barely handle. It's only been 9 days since I blew the lid off the secret, so, if nothing else, the panic of people finding out is very fresh in my mind.

But what this experience showed me was that when I thought really hard, there were some people I could talk to by phone who I knew would love me and care what happened to me. Just their voices over the phone got me through the first few days at least.

If that's not an option, those of us on SL *do* have your back. No judgment, and we care.
 
Thanks so much for the reply. I live in Southern California. I've been afraid of methadone bc I hear it's even harder to get off of. Getting to a clinic everyday would not be a problem and probably better so I can't take more than prescribed. But I've just heard so many horror stories. Plus that shows up on a drug test more than subs bc it's a full agonist opiate and subs are only partial. I'm supposed to start an internship next semester to be a drug counselor and really wanted to get off everything before that came. This is where I'm struggling bc I can't seem to even taper successfully due to the demands of being a stay at home mom. Are there any threads you can recommend about methadone experiences? I will check them out. Thanks again for replying I really am at the end of my rope here and want nothing more than to be opiate free.
 
Yeah it doesn't sound like getting off the buprenorphine right now is in your best interest. Since your in SoCal, there are lots of clinics you can choose from. Try and shop around if you can, some are much better than others. Interview the manager at each clinic, explaining what you want to get out of your time on methadone and how they can support you, and then choose the clinic you feel is best for you if you decide to go that route. I think the stability and structure of methadone would help support you in your ongoing development.

As long as you properly taper off the methadone, slowly going down over a long period of time, and don't use on top of the methadone, getting off really is not nearly as bad as people make it out to seem. It's not fun, but is actually pretty easy when done right. And with enough planning, by which I mean going into the clinic with a general plan of action it isn't hard to get off of.

By plan of action, this is what I mean: You should plan to spend the first month get inducted on the medication; stabilizing over the next six months; with the expectation being that you want to try getting off it around the 24 month mark. The two year mark is around where the research indicated people seem to most successfully transition off methadone. That was certainly my experience, though I got off it at more like the 30 month mark.

Methadone is a huge time commitment like I said, but it will facilitate you learning the skills necessary to establish more responsible patterns of behavior such that you can get where you want to be in life. That is, just as long as you are able and willing to ask the right people for help and put in all the hard work that will be necessary on your journey, continuing to better yourself, eventually transforming into the person you so wish to become.
 
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The other thing I've considered is coming clean to my sub dr about relapsing. Maybe he could increase my dose for a few days and I could then do a quick taper. But I'm really afraid to do that for fear he will cut me off and then I don't know if that blacklists me from starting with a new dr. My dr right now just does the appointment every two weeks online and doesn't drug test. I kinda get the feeling he's just stringing me on for the money. But I've already asked him numerous times for early refills for made-up reasons so that's another reason I'm afraid to come clean- he may think that I'm too high risk and discontinue treatment. But at this point I truly am ready to stop and willing to drug test or go every day or every few days to get my meds if that's required of me. Anything to
Get me off the stuff. But moreover, I know that coming off is going to be extremely tough. I'm terrified bc I don't know how I'll fulfill being a mom during this time. I get so depressed and the wd pains, even mild, are just agonizing. That's why I never make it past a few days. Again, I thank you both for the replies. Just talking about it on here helps.
 
Coming off maintenance meds doesn't have to be painful. It just takes time and consistency to do right. Otherwise, yes, it will be difficult. You don't sound like you're in a very good place to get off your medication.

We are here for you though! Always :)
 
I'm in a similar situation. I've been iving morphine and hydromorphone for about a year before that I was on tabs and perks for about 5 years. I went through the wds on the tabs cold turkey. currently I may have 1 suboxone strip. I went cold turkey for 3 days but decided to get this to help me get off easier. I start tech school Thursday and I'm hoping to be done by then.
 
I went through I similar experience with sub and the ending was really nasty. I went to rehab without doing a real taper which was a HUGE mistake. I thought being on 3mg a day and jumping back and forth with full agonists would play to my advantage when it came time to pay the withdrawal card but I was dead wrong. I was nonfunctioning the entire 30 days of rehab and relapsed the second I had the chance on day 31. Was back on subs by day 46. I didn't have any responsibilities or have to pretend I wasn't dying either. Its not possible to do this over a week or even 2. You need a real taper and even then your chances are probably bleak.

I am on methadone now because I was out of other options. Its pretty good. The best I have found tbh but it does have down sides. TPD laid it out pretty clearly. If you do get on it your going to have a hard time finding a job at a traditional rehab. I don't know if methadone clinics will hire you or not but its something to look into. Truthfully I am not sure if people like us should work in drug counseling or not I go back and fourth on it daily but that's your call. Just be aware if you spend the money on the degree and publicly relapse your pretty much shit out of luck on ever working in the field again. So don't go get in massive debt right now while your struggling still.
 
Thanks for the replies. I actually was going to try to take norcos for a few more days and then go back to subs but yesterday I took waaayyy too much norco and was sick and vomiting all day. So I couldn't make it out to my dealer. I had 2 8mg subs I had saved up and started myself last night 1 mg at a time. I took 3 mg through the night and today took a total of 4 mg (tried less but needed just a little bit more).

I really thought about what toothpaste dog said that maybe I'm not ready to come off. I feel ready but my situation just makes it hard. So far I am feeling very good. I'm not over doing myself like I normally do and I'm just accepting that I'm not going to have super energy and I keep reminding myself of my end goal. So far so good I still have one more tab left and my fiancé gives me a half (4mg) every morning bc I give him my script since I can't be responsible on my own. I've been reaching out to my higher power and just staying mindful of everything.

Normally I would have already taken both tabs and probably be needing more before the day ends. I'm hoping that taking a little at a time will be more effective than just dosing very high at the beginning. We'll see how it goes. I am done with the semester in December and if I can keep on track I can start tapering more then. At least if I can stabilize on 4 mg a day that is better than how I've been doing for months and will save me thousands on the stupid norcos.

Thanks again for the support. It helps a lot. I do want to tell sin defiant that you're on some pretty powerful stuff and that's amazing you made it 3 days cold turkey. I started my habit on morphine and it took at least 10 days to feel functional and about 30 days to get off clonidine.

If you are starting school soon you may want to consider getting a suboxone script bc that's very soon to start an important endeavor when you just came off such powerful meds. Even after the painful acute wd are over there tends to be at least a few months of post acute wd which can be very difficult and a lot of people relapse. I wish u the best. Keep me posted on how you do!
 
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To update, I went back and forth for a few more weeks, but stretched my days out more. I was able to get clonidine and gabapentin from my dr so I've been using that to stave off the wd's. I finally drained all my savings and I have access to more but I'm not going to get it for now, so I can't just run to the dealer. I just want to really make an effort to ditch this crap altogether. The depression I have from relapsing when I was getting so far just kills me. So I'm ready to just make the transition and I know it's gonna suck for awhile. I told my fiancé I want off this shit and so housework and other stuff just will take a back seat for now.
 
Nice work! Sounds like you have this pretty well under control at this stage. How are you feeling with the taper/withdrawal?
 
So far I have been pretty ok. I get lethargic especially toward evening and it sucks bc I have class 3 nights a week but the other meds help. School ends next month so if I can even get to 3 mg subs right now and no norcos that will be fantastic and I'll taper more when school ends. I know my biggest threat is when I'm in the moment not feeling well and I have a lot to do or I'm just tired of feeling like crap. That's when I give in and get norcos or take more subs then I'm supposed to. So I need to be mindful during those times to just take a break and sit down. I guess.
 
Hi! I just wanted to give you a little encouragement...
I was an undercover opiate addict for 7 yrs. Graduated from Lorcet to Methadone. Never went to a Dr, just bought from friends. I drained our savings and put my needs before that of my family. I'm married with four kids. I thought I was a better mom when I was on pills...seriously Super Mom. I justified the pills by being fun and energetic for the kids.
My husband and parents finally figured out my secret when we hit $0 in the bank and sent me to rehab for 7 days. They put me on subs and sent me to a sub Dr afterwards. Little did they know that subs became my DOC.

Long story short, I finally went CT on subs after 3 yrs. I had been taking anywhere from 2-10 mg a day. I am on day 31 of being clean! The wd from subs sucks but mine were not nearly as bad as wd from other opiates esp methadone. On my third day of wd, I took 20 mg of immodium and decreased everyday for 10 days. I swear it was a miracle drug for me.

I had to take care of My kids including a 16 month old the whole time. I am such a wimp, if I can do it, anyone can. Tapering is a much better plan, I'm sure, but I didn't have the willpower and always ended up upping my dosage.

Stay away from the Norcos, girl. Make a deal with yourself that you will taper correctly. It is so awesome to not have to obsess about meds, getting money to buy meds, covering up your addiction, etc! You will be such a better parent and partner.

Let me know if I can help in any way! Just know you aren't alone.
 
Thank you eyesopen. I haven't had any norcos since Monday morning. It's now Wednesday night. I took 4 mg sub today and yesterday. Normally without clonidine and gabapentin I would be dying for more subs but I'm ok. So it's a glimmer of hope. I have set my sights on being an addiction counselor. I have the education I have the motivation, I just need to make that jump off opiates. I hate being dependent on this shit. HATE IT. Question- did your husband know you came off subs?
 
I would describe my husband as willfully ignorant about meds. He never even asked what I took or why. He thinks addiction is mind over matter and that addicts are weak. He's not a bad person, just not sympathetic about this. I didn't want him to know that subs were my newest addiction so I definitely didn't tell him about the wds. He just thought I had the flu bc I was so cold all the time.

The immodium was a lifesaver. It took the edge off mentally and physically. Taking care of the kids helped me focus on being a better mom instead of the wds.

I had really never tried to quit before. Tapering just didn't work bc I always broke down and re-upped myself. Wds scared me. As I said before, I am a big wimp. However, I got to the point where I just wanted to be free. The threads I read here gave me hope and I knew it was time.

Tapering is best, I'm sure. But in my experience withdrawing from subs was SO much physically easier than full opiates. I would stay on 4 mg subs until you feel stable and then go very slow. Don't quit altogether until you're sure you're mentally ready or you'll just start the cycle over again.

It probably would have been better to have someone to talk to about my wds, but I feel kind of extra proud that I did it myself. I probably read every thread about wds on this site so I would remember that many people had been where I was.
 
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