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Health HPPD - Symptoms increasing after psychedelic abstinence

Nonyascaline

Nonyascaline

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 4, 2023
Messages
25
Location
New Mexico
Like many of you here, I am a heavy psychedelic user. When I have extended periods of time away from work, I love to get a trip in at least every two weeks. But now that work/school is in full swing, and that I am preoccupied with college, I've been sober for a little over 2 months. Over this period of time, I have noticed a gradual increase of my HPPD. I theorize that this is caused by my 5HT-2a receptors returning to baseline; frequent psychedelic use leads to down-regulation of that receptor, but I don't know how long it takes for it to return to baseline. Surely not ~2 months?

Has anyone experienced anything similar? Do you have another theory of what causes this?
 
I've got wicked bad HPPD, still use psychedelics incredibly often because HPPD doesn't really get in my way, and when I have it I'm a much more stable person emotionally for some reason.

Most other drugs exacerbate it, as does stress. If I'm stressed enough my lived experience is completely indistinguishable from ~250ug of LSD. I keep some weak benzos handy in case I need to drive in that state, but even caffeine if I take 300mg+ on no tolerance will leave me with distracting visuals and shit.
 
Every time I've had medically significant HPPD, it lasted at least 2 months. Often up to 6 months. Frankly, it never went away, but generally only gets triggered now by various drugs.

HPPD is not necessarily something you should be terribly worried about... it's actually fairly common (but is definitely IS a sign that you need to cool it down with the psychedelics brother)

but it could be confused with a sign of prodromal psychosis or something else... so stay vigilant.

HPPD generally does not increase in intensity over time with sobriety... so that sounds abnormal... this leads me to believe you are using other drugs which are making it worse.

Nonyascaline said:
Do you have another theory of what causes this?
Click to expand...

Brutal alteration of consciousness and neuronal activity by extremely powerful drugs.

But no, science has really no idea why HPPD occurs.

In fact, the DSM-V definition is extremely vague and strict. It only considers HPPD a real condition if it causes disability, extreme distress, or inability to work... which is probably less than 1% of cases of HPPD. Most are mild. People tend to just overthink it.

Personally, HPPD has never bothered me one bit. I find it rather entertaining sometimes, to be honest.... like, "wow, the street is melting sideways, that's funny looking".... then I drive away and just go about my day and do not have any other HPPD symptom for awhile. It's not some constant thing that bothers me.
 
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Quasimoto said:
Every time I've had medically significant HPPD, it lasted at least 2 months. Often up to 6 months. Frankly, it never went away, but generally only gets triggered now by various drugs.

HPPD is not necessarily something you should be terribly worried about... it's actually fairly common (but is definitely IS a sign that you need to cool it down with the psychedelics brother)

but it could be confused with a sign of prodromal psychosis or something else... so stay vigilant.

HPPD generally does not increase in intensity over time with sobriety... so that sounds abnormal... this leads me to believe you are using other drugs which are making it worse.



Brutal alteration of consciousness and neuronal activity by extremely powerful drugs.

But no, science has really no idea why HPPD occurs.

In fact, the DSM-V definition is extremely vague and strict. It only considers HPPD a real condition if it causes disability, extreme distress, or inability to work... which is probably less than 1% of cases of HPPD. Most are mild. People tend to just overthink it.

Personally, HPPD has never bothered me one bit. I find it rather entertaining sometimes, to be honest.... like, "wow, the street is melting sideways, that's funny looking".... then I drive away and just go about my day and do not have any other HPPD symptom for awhile. It's not some constant thing that bothers me.
Click to expand...
I enjoy the mild drifting I get, and the simple geometric patterns of color distortion (among other things). I find it benign and reasonably enjoyable likewise to you. I'll also heed your advice, I enjoy this kind of stuff more than I should lol.

The only thing that I posted this is the increase, instead of decrease, of symptom strength. Usually I'd attribute this to pot, or some other substance, but I've solely ingested caffeine and a small amount of alcohol over this period of time. Either way, my intake is/was too high, and this perceived increase might just be some form of placebo. Although with the other response in mind, I suspect my high caffeine intake might be playing a part.

Thanks for the feedback man :)
 
Esperighanto said:
I've got wicked bad HPPD, still use psychedelics incredibly often because HPPD doesn't really get in my way, and when I have it I'm a much more stable person emotionally for some reason.

Most other drugs exacerbate it, as does stress. If I'm stressed enough my lived experience is completely indistinguishable from ~250ug of LSD. I keep some weak benzos handy in case I need to drive in that state, but even caffeine if I take 300mg+ on no tolerance will leave me with distracting visuals and shit.
Click to expand...
Those are some twisted strong symptoms man! If you enjoy it, more power to you - I just think some caution might be warranted as we don't know all that much about this condition yet, but by all means it seems more or less harmless - to most, like you and I. Though I'm in the same boat as Quasimoto, and possibly you, in that I enjoy my HPPD. To my weird head I think of as my experiences leaving a small peice of themselves with me until I cross paths with the substance again. Entirely benign and mellow, but with intensity like yours that might cross into neutral territory

The things that increase your HPPD intensity draws parallels to my personal experience, my high caffeine intake and stress from my courses could be causing it. It's pleasant though.

Enjoy those trips man, I have a nest egg myself that I'll crack into sooner or later.
 
Nonyascaline said:
Those are some twisted strong symptoms man! If you enjoy it, more power to you - I just think some caution might be warranted as we don't know all that much about this condition yet, but by all means it seems more or less harmless - to most, like you and I. Though I'm in the same boat as Quasimoto, and possibly you, in that I enjoy my HPPD. To my weird head I think of as my experiences leaving a small peice of themselves with me until I cross paths with the substance again. Entirely benign and mellow, but with intensity like yours that might cross into neutral territory

The things that increase your HPPD intensity draws parallels to my personal experience, my high caffeine intake and stress from my courses could be causing it. It's pleasant though.

Enjoy those trips man, I have a nest egg myself that I'll crack into sooner or later.
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Yeah people are always so afraid of HPPD, but what I often refer to as "intentionally cultivated HPPD" is what I believe I'm experiencing, it's kind of giving me the results of microdosing but in a more intense way. It felt like I've "psychedelically stained" many other drugs' experiences to where they bring a psychedelic element now. For example, l foolishly drank a vial containing 15mg of LSD once. Since then I've been very "acid stained", consistent CEVs, LSD like stimulation, etc as long as I've taken my Bupropion or done a dab I'm right back into the headspace and the visuals and body feel come along with it.

I've also suffered through a ton of brain damage in my life and the use of NGF and BDNF releasing psychedelics has led to no more visible brain lesions on my MRIs!!!! So that's wicked cool at least.
 
Esperighanto said:
I've also suffered through a ton of brain damage in my life and the use of NGF and BDNF releasing psychedelics has led to no more visible brain lesions on my MRIs!!!! So that's wicked cool at least.
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Awesome to hear man. Psychedelics can help the world so much.
 
I have hppd too. It was very scary at first, as I was only 14 when I got it. And nobody believed me, including my parents and doctors. It was bad enough that I could look at a texture, like at the roof with bumps or some grass or anything really, and the details would shift around and make words. It was really bad. But slowly..... it both got better and I just learned to live with it.

It doesn't bother me much anymore. It'll get better.... just stop taking psychedelics if you want that to happen, including weed.
 
Quasimoto said:
Curiously, there are a lot of young people who experiment with psychedelics, then almost seem excited they have it. They wear it like a badge.
Click to expand...
Oh man, when I got hppd really young, one my friends said he was jealous. I tried again and again to explain that hallucinating all the time is not fun, its scary. But he never seemed to understand. But idk, maybe some people would like it? I kind of doubt it. Don't want to accuse anybody of lying or anything, but if somebody was bragging about having it, I would skeptical, I'll say that much.
 
There are two terms I am glad did not exist before the internet. and not in early literature: HPPD and PAWS.

PAWS: I remember always feeling great after kicking an opiate habit. Once clean and especially after a few trips I always felt great. Never had any extended issues like we see today. But if the term existed back then it may have influenced some of my unfounded happiness and I would have to have been sad. You know because of PAWS. (yes that is sarcastic) I do believe people experience PAWS, I am just glad that notion was off the table except for long term methadone patients some years ago.

HPPD: Ever since my first trip 46 years ago when I look at a wall I can see the shifting patterns. However I am not sure that is what HPPD is. I am thinking the people that don't like it are getting something more than just shifting patterns. Either that or they let that shift in vision bother them. To me I love it. Been have seeing that for years. I always like saying it is like seeing the constellations along with the stars. :) I mean, added vision. BUT if HPPD is worse than that then I don't have it. But ever since my first trip I can always see the revolving patterns. Glad to see I am not the only one that sees it as a benefit.
 
Esperighanto said:
I've got wicked bad HPPD, still use psychedelics incredibly often because HPPD doesn't really get in my way, and when I have it I'm a much more stable person emotionally for some reason.

Most other drugs exacerbate it, as does stress. If I'm stressed enough my lived experience is completely indistinguishable from ~250ug of LSD. I keep some weak benzos handy in case I need to drive in that state, but even caffeine if I take 300mg+ on no tolerance will leave me with distracting visuals and shit.
Click to expand...
It bothers me that you would assess the non-tripping HPPD as equal to 250ugLSD (i.e. average effects at this dose include complete dscombobulation including inability to stand or navigate familiar spaces) perhaps you exaggerate.

It further bothers me that you would take benzos in order to drive, when your non-drugged experience equates (subjectively) with 250ug LSD.

I think you are describing something that is not sustainably healthy for mind or body.
 
Quasimoto said:
Every time I've had medically significant HPPD, it lasted at least 2 months. Often up to 6 months. Frankly, it never went away, but generally only gets triggered now by various drugs.

HPPD is not necessarily something you should be terribly worried about... it's actually fairly common (but is definitely IS a sign that you need to cool it down with the psychedelics brother)

but it could be confused with a sign of prodromal psychosis or something else... so stay vigilant.

HPPD generally does not increase in intensity over time with sobriety... so that sounds abnormal... this leads me to believe you are using other drugs which are making it worse.



Brutal alteration of consciousness and neuronal activity by extremely powerful drugs.

But no, science has really no idea why HPPD occurs.

In fact, the DSM-V definition is extremely vague and strict. It only considers HPPD a real condition if it causes disability, extreme distress, or inability to work... which is probably less than 1% of cases of HPPD. Most are mild. People tend to just overthink it.

Personally, HPPD has never bothered me one bit. I find it rather entertaining sometimes, to be honest.... like, "wow, the street is melting sideways, that's funny looking".... then I drive away and just go about my day and do not have any other HPPD symptom for awhile. It's not some constant thing that bothers me.
Click to expand...
I feel like hppd is an example of learning in the visual cortex. When neurons signal to other neurons repeatedly, the connection strengthens. During a trip you are both experiencing rather strong visual inputs (due to the feedback of visual processing pyramidal neurons, and there are growth factors being released (such as BDNF, famously). The combination of these will cause learning to occur much more robustly than in your sober existence.

HPPD lasts for so long, because the process of it fading is the process of forgetting.

Only weird thing is why certain drugs tend to cause it more than others. Though I often suspect that one reason 2C-X compounds have such a reputation for causing it is that they could be taken frequently.
 
Skorpio said:
Only weird thing is why certain drugs tend to cause it more than others.
Click to expand...
I certainly get it more from LSD over tryptamines or phenethylamines. I always assumed it was due to the longer duration.

Curiously, I wonder if it could be prevented or modulated by keeping your eyes closed during the trip? HPPD symptoms seem rather specific to open eyed visual aberrations.
 
pupnik said:
It bothers me that you would assess the non-tripping HPPD as equal to 250ugLSD (i.e. average effects at this dose include complete dscombobulation including inability to stand or navigate familiar spaces) perhaps you exaggerate.

It further bothers me that you would take benzos in order to drive, when your non-drugged experience equates (subjectively) with 250ug LSD.

I think you are describing something that is not sustainably healthy for mind or body.
Click to expand...
I'm in a state of stress that exacerbates my HPPD to a bothersome point maybe once a year at most, and 5-10mg of diazepam to level me out on those occasions probably isn't the worst things. My base line without consuming a lot of cannabis and psychedelics leaves me in a profoundly antisocial place, my original diagnosis was just ambiguously "brain damage" from surgeries gone awry. Shit like watching my mother walk into the room I'm in with the barrel of her hand gun in her mouth, pulling the trigger. I'm sobbing over her corpse for hours and then without even blinking, it disappears because it was never real. This was before I touched a psychedelic. Since I have, that shit stopped. I'd much rather deal with the occasional pain in the ass visuals than being unironically schizotypal over brain damage from chronic illnesses I was born with and had no control over, tbh.

I'm not exaggerating at all, I'm just used to it. After you spend this long in this state it just becomes kind of normalized, but compared to the haunted schizotypal life I was living before it's dramatically happier and easier to function on the day to day.

Edit: Grew up terminally ill, pulled through by chance. Between 12-16 spent 16 months living in the hospital, I'm actually going in for surgery #16 on 11/4 at the age of 25 because, as it turns out, this shit never ends. I'm just glad I've got my neurological health back to a point where I can function and have a career and a fiancee and shit and be a normal person without seeing demons everywhere and hearing voices telling me that the point of my life is to eat people. Smoking weed helped it initially, which led my doctors to believe it wasn't schizophrenia but was instead likely brain damage from the surgeries (often back to back 20+ hours under general anesthesia, having seizures while under GA). Came out of it and the only thing I regret is that all the other kids in the hospital got to die but I'm still fucking here.
 
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@Esperighanto
yours is an unusual case, psychosis and hppd terminology hardly applies.

Are there - have there been - tumorous growths around the limbic system (hippocampus/hypothalamus/amygdala)?

Amazingly you can read and write and participate, but your inner world is incomparably afflicted by phenomena that few people experience for more than a decade.
every post you make could have the disclaimer that you have already suffered several brain surgeries, which may have eliminated some symptoms, and still you survive with neurological impacts that are difficult to describe.
 
Esperighanto said:
I've got wicked bad HPPD, still use psychedelics incredibly often because HPPD doesn't really get in my way, and when I have it I'm a much more stable person emotionally for some reason.

Most other drugs exacerbate it, as does stress. If I'm stressed enough my lived experience is completely indistinguishable from ~250ug of LSD. I keep some weak benzos handy in case I need to drive in that state, but even caffeine if I take 300mg+ on no tolerance will leave me with distracting visuals and shit.
Click to expand...
Exactly
 
2 months is nothing.

I noticed I was sensitive to hppd in my teens and early twenties more.

But it took a couple years for the symptoms to leave of being off of psychs totally.

Then I resumed doing tons of psychs when I was 30 and I never got hppd when I was older.

They say the brain isn’t fully developed till 25 maybe something to do with that
 
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