How strong are Kratom and Kratom extracts as anti inflammatories compared to NSAIDs?

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Mycophile

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I only take Kratom at most one day a week, but I have neck problems called "cervical/degenerative disk disease" from years of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so I need to do a lot of physical therapy to strengthen my neck. The other day I was at a pain management specialist who was telling me I should only take NSAIDs like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin when I REALLY need it. What he explained is that when you work out to build muscle you WANT to be sore afterwards because you need the inflammation to get stronger. He said that NSAIDs MAJORLY fuck up your body's ability to strengthen a particular area.

So, with this in mind, does anyone know how strong an anti inflammatory effect Kratom and Kratom extracts (stuff like OPMS black and Hush, NOT 7-OH which I've never used) in comparison to stuff like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin?

I've generally heard that Kratom is just an atypical opioid and Mu-opioid antagonist and that its anti inflammatory effects aren't all that strong. Is that true? Or is it just as strong an anti inflammatory as Aleve/Naproxen and other NSAIDs?

If it is a strong anti inflammatory then I know I should avoid it during the days I workout. Also, does anyone know how long any anti inflammatory action on the body would last after it has initially worn off? Like, I know that Aleve can have blood thinning effects for up to a couple weeks. Does Kratom continue to lower inflammation for days after taking a single dose?
 
Mycophile said:
I only take Kratom at most one day a week, but I have neck problems called "cervical/degenerative disk disease" from years of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so I need to do a lot of physical therapy to strengthen my neck. The other day I was at a pain management specialist who was telling me I should only take NSAIDs like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin when I REALLY need it. What he explained is that when you work out to build muscle you WANT to be sore afterwards because you need the inflammation to get stronger. He said that NSAIDs MAJORLY fuck up your body's ability to strengthen a particular area.

So, with this in mind, does anyone know how strong an anti inflammatory effect Kratom and Kratom extracts (stuff like OPMS black and Hush, NOT 7-OH which I've never used) in comparison to stuff like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin?

I've generally heard that Kratom is just an atypical opioid and Mu-opioid antagonist and that its anti inflammatory effects aren't all that strong. Is that true? Or is it just as strong an anti inflammatory as Aleve/Naproxen and other NSAIDs?

If it is a strong anti inflammatory then I know I should avoid it during the days I workout. Also, does anyone know how long any anti inflammatory action on the body would last after it has initially worn off? Like, I know that Aleve can have blood thinning effects for up to a couple weeks. Does Kratom continue to lower inflammation for days after taking a single dose?
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OPMS black has about 7mg of 7oh in it

For your other questions I have nothing to respond but I do hope you find an answer.
 
helpingout said:
OPMS black has about 7mg of 7oh in it

For your other questions I have nothing to respond but I do hope you find an answer.
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It does? Well how does that compare to the 7-OH products people use these days? Because the way I've heard them described is like they are so addictive it's like crack. OPMS black isn't like that for me. I can take it one day and won't get WD as long as I don't for a few more, but it will have noticeably less effect if I take it 2 days in a row. I think that these 7 OH products are probably on another level. How many mgs of 7-OH do most of the typical 7-OH products have?
 
Who or what said kratom alkaloids are anti-inflammatory?

In my extensive experience they actually PRODUCE inflammation, particularly with chronic or high doses.

7-OH and related alkaloids might not, but kratom powder and mitragynine itself do.

I've read all sorts of speculative nonsense about kratom. That it lowers blood sugar... that it lowers blood pressure. For the latter, I can confirm via doctors that it INCREASES blood pressure. Lots of misinformation about kratom out there perpetuated by lack of scientific study and the annoying AKA propaganda from hippies who think plant drugs are harmless and/or medicine.
 
helpingout said:
Why would I not believe the package?
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Not FDA regulated - they can say it has whatever they want, it's marketed to make you think you're going to get high, and it's based on faulty data about the natural occurance of 7-OH in the plant, which is always vastly overstated.

Trust me, if you took 7mg of real, pure 7-OH... you would quickly realize that OPMS black contains almost zero.

OPMS black is just reporting dubious claims about the natural occurance of 7-OH in the plant... which was originally speculated to be around 0.1%, but is actually closed to 0.001% in reality.

Notice now they say "contains <7mg"?

The < symbol is key. It could mean zero.

OPMS black is just a simple plant extract. It has no more 7-OH than regular powder does.

Also... you should NEVER trust the labels on grey area vape shop products. They have more incentive to lie to you than to be truthful.
 
Mycophile said:
I only take Kratom at most one day a week, but I have neck problems called "cervical/degenerative disk disease" from years of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so I need to do a lot of physical therapy to strengthen my neck. The other day I was at a pain management specialist who was telling me I should only take NSAIDs like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin when I REALLY need it. What he explained is that when you work out to build muscle you WANT to be sore afterwards because you need the inflammation to get stronger. He said that NSAIDs MAJORLY fuck up your body's ability to strengthen a particular area.

So, with this in mind, does anyone know how strong an anti inflammatory effect Kratom and Kratom extracts (stuff like OPMS black and Hush, NOT 7-OH which I've never used) in comparison to stuff like Aleve, Advil, and Aspirin?

I've generally heard that Kratom is just an atypical opioid and Mu-opioid antagonist and that its anti inflammatory effects aren't all that strong. Is that true? Or is it just as strong an anti inflammatory as Aleve/Naproxen and other NSAIDs?

If it is a strong anti inflammatory then I know I should avoid it during the days I workout. Also, does anyone know how long any anti inflammatory action on the body would last after it has initially worn off? Like, I know that Aleve can have blood thinning effects for up to a couple weeks. Does Kratom continue to lower inflammation for days after taking a single dose?
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Don’t know about Kratom specifically but the scientific literature shows that morphine and methadone (and I assume other opioid agonists) cause the release of pro inflammatory cytokines
 
LucidSDreamr said:
Don’t know about Kratom specifically but the scientific literature shows that morphine and methadone (and I assume other opioid agonists) cause the release of pro inflammatory cytokines
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I'll second the question by the last poster: do you mean that they increase inflammation?

If so, generally speaking, that would often seem like a bad thing, but as far as working out an injury is concerned, that's better than decreasing inflammation which defeats the purpose of working out at all. However, with these injuries, I think doctors would say I also don't want to increase inflammation by means of anything other than exercise.
 
Quasimoto said:
Who or what said kratom alkaloids are anti-inflammatory?

In my extensive experience they actually PRODUCE inflammation, particularly with chronic or high doses.

7-OH and related alkaloids might not, but kratom powder and mitragynine itself do.

I've read all sorts of speculative nonsense about kratom. That it lowers blood sugar... that it lowers blood pressure. For the latter, I can confirm via doctors that it INCREASES blood pressure. Lots of misinformation about kratom out there perpetuated by lack of scientific study and the annoying AKA propaganda from hippies who think plant drugs are harmless and/or medicine.
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That's all interesting, but lets not hate on Kratom either. Whatever is true about it is true and should be acknowledged, both pros and cons, and yes, those super pro-plant hippies are annoying, but I also think that Kratom has its positive uses and should stay legal regardless, and Kratom CAN be medicinal at times, but it can also be harmful in certain ways, though I don't believe it can kill people who don't have prior health conditions. Kratom supporters spread pro-kratom propaganda, but anti-kratom people spread negative and often false anti-kratom propaganda. I don't really think that AKA spreads all that much misinformation. They want to keep it legal so they do what is necessary, but I'm not sure Mac Haddow and his people are trying to claim Kratom is good for everything and has zero negative side effects.

I don't know where I heard that it had anti inflammatory properties. If it does cause inflammation that's not good, but it's not as bad as far as WORKING OUT is concerned as if it lowers them. I was recently told by a pain management specialist that if I take Aleve or NSAIDs while trying to rehab my neck then I basically might as well not rehab at all because NSAIDs will ruin my gains because inflammation is necessary to make us stronger when we work out.
 
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chippermonk said:
You mean cause inflammation?
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I don’t know you’ll have to consult the literature.

All I know is that those inflammation markers are elevated as a result of morphine use. Whether they are release as a result of inflammation or whether they are released and then promote actual inflammation; I’m not sure

I don’t really see inflammation not being there if they are present - common sense would tell me this but the only thing I’m sure of is that those markers are elevated

IL-6 is the one I remember off the top of my head but there are others
 
Quasimoto said:
Who or what said kratom alkaloids are anti-inflammatory?

In my extensive experience they actually PRODUCE inflammation, particularly with chronic or high doses.

7-OH and related alkaloids might not, but kratom powder and mitragynine itself do.

I've read all sorts of speculative nonsense about kratom. That it lowers blood sugar... that it lowers blood pressure. For the latter, I can confirm via doctors that it INCREASES blood pressure. Lots of misinformation about kratom out there perpetuated by lack of scientific study and the annoying AKA propaganda from hippies who think plant drugs are harmless and/or medicine.
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I copied this thread to one of Reddit's forums and a poster responded with this. Looks like there is actual evidence to support it being an anti-inflammatory, though who knows how strong it is in comparison to NSAIDs:



The anti-inflammatory claims come from the scientific literature (though some papers allude to it vaguely without much discussion).

Additionally, indirect analgesic properties have been attributed to mitragynine’s putative anti-inflammatory effects, secondary to the inhibition of COX-2 and prostaglandin E2 mRNA expression
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Mycophile said:
I copied this thread to one of Reddit's forums and a poster responded with this. Looks like there is actual evidence to support it being an anti-inflammatory, though who knows how strong it is in comparison to NSAIDs:



The anti-inflammatory claims come from the scientific literature (though some papers allude to it vaguely without much discussion).
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"putative anti-inflammatory effects"

Interesting tidbit in that link about mit pharmacology, and it acting as a COX inhibitor, but is speculative and this isn't evidence of anything.

Aspirin itself, a COX inhibitor, can cause paradoxical inflammation from high and/or chronic doses.

This is also looking at pure mitragynine, not kratom powder. Kratom is a crazy mess of 50+ alkaloids, not just mitragynine.

I would literally bet $1000 hard cash that kratom, on a whole, causes more inflammation than it relieves. I'm that confident.
 
Quasimoto said:
"putative anti-inflammatory effects"

Interesting tidbit in that link about mit pharmacology, and it acting as a COX inhibitor, but is speculative and this isn't evidence of anything.

Aspirin itself, a COX inhibitor, can cause paradoxical inflammation from high and/or chronic doses.

This is also looking at pure mitragynine, not kratom powder. Kratom is a crazy mess of 50+ alkaloids, not just mitragynine.

I would literally bet $1000 hard cash that kratom, on a whole, causes more inflammation than it relieves. I'm that confident.
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Well, you can be as confident as you want, but I'm not. I've never noticed any extra inflammation in my body from Kratom, and because I have cervical disk disease and also worn down knees from 3 ACL tears/surgeries and do martial arts I've got plenty of things that could hurt if I had more inflammation, but I generally just have a problem when I have a flare up of my CDD. I don't see any actual evidence that Kratom increases inflammation. Its not the same as morphine which is what you first compared it to. It's also used SO frequently, and very often with beneficial effect, for people who have bad issues with inflammation.

But honestly, I'm not saying that I think it does or doesn't cause inflammation. I'm not confident enough on that. Maybe it decreases it, maybe it increases it, or maybe it has little effect on inflammation. I just don't know.
 
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helpingout said:
Why would I not believe the package?
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Because kratom isn't regulated as it isn't sold at a drug or medicine but instead sold as an herbal supplement, so nothing they put on the packaging is checked by any neutral third party.

Look, I love kratom but less reputable companies will absolutely try to sell kratom using whatever claims they think will help.

I don't know if kratom has any anti inflammatory properties or not, to be clear, but I'm always very suspicious of the wild claims some make about kratom and I think stuff like this will absolutely be brought up in attempts to legislate kratom.

Personally I avoid brands that make any claims about kratom that are not 100% confirmed for precisely that reason. I don't want to give money to people who are going to get a product I found life saving banned.
 
I've never heard anything about Kratom being anti-inflammatory. But its true that our bodies do inflame for a reason, though I'm not sure exactly the reason in the case of your neck injury, I'm no doctor.

But its funny actually a lot of a signs we associate with being sick are actually signs of our body fighting the illness. Things exactly like inflammation, pus, fever, etc. They are there for a reason. Unfortunately our bodies don't always make the right judgment calls on these things, especially if there's multiple factors involved confusing the communication.

Anyway, good luck with your neck. You're probably fine to take Kratom if its for pain relief. But of course be aware that even though it is a weak opioid and an atypical opioid, its still an opioid and therefore can cause dependence and withdrawal if taken carelessly. But sounds like you know that already.
 
NSAIDS definitely are more effective for inflammation. Kratom just blocks the pain. I think it might be able to reduce inflammation to some extent though. I always noticed I could breathe easier than normal, hard to explain. It didn't help me with tooth pain stuff when I had my wisdom teeth anywhere near as much as Ibuprofen though.
 
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