Help! How soon can I begin eating Tryamine rich foods after taking Harmaline?

[YeButNah]

After reading True Hallucinations, and seeing McKenna describe the smoking of Caapi vines to gain a MAOI-high, I've been very interested in producing a smoking blend. I've already prepared the Harmine and Harmaline freebase, which will be dissolved in ethanol and poured over an herbal blend. I know well to avoid certain foods and substances while my mono-amine oxidase is inhibited, but how long will this effect be taking place to the point where it's dangerous to eat cheese or soy sauce? I can't seem to find anything on the subject online

 

[Bitchniggaz]

Doesnt really matter att the doses used in changa etc.
I do not recomend this but i have even done a bunch of mdma and then used changa with zero sides.

Usually i use around 10% harmala in changa.
So a dose of 100mg changa is about 40mg dmt and 10mg harmala.

Compared to an oral dmt trip where i might use 3-500mg of harmala.

 

[RhythmSpring]

There's a lot of debate, but from what I hear, the "cheese effect" only happens to dangerous levels when taking pharmaceutical MAOIs. With natural ones like from Syrian Rue or Ayahuasca, they are actually technically *reversible* MAOIs, or RIMAs.

 

[G_Chem]

Doesnt really matter att the doses used in changa etc.
I do not recomend this but i have even done a bunch of mdma and then used changa with zero sides.

Usually i use around 10% harmala in changa.
So a dose of 100mg changa is about 40mg dmt and 10mg harmala.

Compared to an oral dmt trip where i might use 3-500mg of harmala.

I heard a story of some guys handing out changa at a rave one time and a bunch of people ended up with serotonin syndrome cuz they were rolling when they smoked it.

Not doubting you, but I’m sure harmala alkaloids vary wildly from one batch to the next.

-GC

 

[JackARoe]

Great question that over the years have not been able to reconcile. Johnathan Ott did some experiments and ate some cheese sandwiches at the end of some pharmahuasca trips and was fine.

I have not touched harmala since adding in daily kratom. When I research that some people said they were fine. But I admit SS is not something someone wants to find themselves in if they are tripping hard.

I still think it is wise to be careful but the more data we have the better. Makes me wonder how someone can take non reversible maoi as a medicine and stay away 1/3 of the food group.

 

[Skorpio]

Two types of maoi out there: covalent and reversible maois. Covalent maois (phenelzine, trancypromine, selegiline) get metabolized by monoamine oxidase and converted to highly reactive species that bond with the enzyme and inhibit it. Reversible inhibitors of monoamine oxidase a (rimas) (such as moclobemide, harmaline, harmine) simply bind to the active site and resist metabolism, displaying on and off kinetics like any non covalent ligand binding to a receptor.

The reason that irreversible maois cause cheese syndrome is that chronic steady state dosing of them induces pretty much complete inactivation of the pool of monoamine oxidases that they target. Thus the body is unable to break down large doses of tyramine.

With rimas there will be an equilibrium of both drug-bound and drug-unbound monoamine oxidase a, so some amount of tyramine (or anything else) will be still getting metabolized.

I would be wary of combining even rimas with any serotonin releaser. That is just asking for trouble. With maois you get the double issue of inhibiting both the parent drug's metabolism and the metabolism of serotonin, which really decreases the margins of a good recreational dose to an overdose.

 

[Xorkoth]

It is questionable whether dietary tyramine restrictions are even necessary with the RIMAs (reversible MAOIs like harmaline), as opposed to the pharmaceutical non-reversible MAOIs (where it is definitely an issue). But to be safe, certainly you should avoid tyramine while taking harmine/harmaline. However, once the effects have worn off, you'll be good. Certainly the next day is fine.

As others have mentioned, though, it is definitely important to avoid serotonin releasers or any stimulants.

 

[Pfafffed]

^ What those people said. Dietary restrictions are not generally thought to be important with RIMAs. Just be careful with medications.