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How many innocent people would you kill to save yourself?

psychoblast

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Short quiz because I'm curious what normal ethics are on these topics:

1. How many adult strangers would you kill to save yourself (the strangers are NOT trying to kill you)?

2. Would your answer change if the strangers were children? If yes, how?

3. How many adult strangers would you kill to save your child (the strangers are NOT trying to kill your child)?

4. Would your answer change if the strangers were children? If yes, how?

5. How many adult strangers would you kill to save your lover/spouse/soul mate?

6. Would your answer change if the strangers were children?

----

I guess my answers are:
1. 0
2. no
3. not sure (no kids yet). Probably 1, give or take 1 (0 to 2).
4. yes, 0 for sure.
5. not sure...probably should be 0, but I may be more in love (and more selfish) than that.
6. yes, 0 for sure.

~psychoblast~
 
1. How many adult strangers would you kill to save yourself (the strangers are NOT trying to kill you)?

I doubt I can give a reasonably accurate answer. I'd probably panic, and our minds often ignore logic when under that kind of stress. I'd like to think that I would kill none, and just let myself die. I don't value my life as more important than anyone else's, and I don't fear death.

2. Would your answer change if the strangers were children? If yes, how?

Nope.

3. How many adult strangers would you kill to save your child (the strangers are NOT trying to kill your child)?

Again, I can't accurately judge this, but I doubt I would be able to force myself to kill others even to save my child. (Who I am responsible for protecting)

4. Would your answer change if the strangers were children? If yes, how?

My answer would not change, no matter the ages of the others.

5. How many adult strangers would you kill to save your lover/spouse/soul mate?

I don't think I would want to live after killing innocent people just to save my lover. Though emotions could play a role in my decision, I doubt I would kill anyone to save her.

6. Would your answer change if the strangers were children?

Nope.

(Edit: I changed number 3 & 5 after thinking it over more carefully)
 
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Why would anyone kill anyone else to "save" their child (or themselves) when there is no threat? That really makes no sense at all? Why would you have to kill them to save them PB? Care to explain a little bit better? At this point your hypotheticals are unrealistic, and incomplete.
 
SoHiAllTheTime said:
Why would anyone kill anyone else to "save" their child (or themselves) when there is no threat? That really makes no sense at all? Why would you have to kill them to save them PB? Care to explain a little bit better? At this point your hypotheticals are unrealistic, and incomplete.

I was going to ask the same question.....
 
Well, one example I could think of:

A man with a gun threatens to kill your child/ lover, or kill another hostage. It's your choice who he kills. Then after he kills the hostage, he gives you the same choice again.

Seems unusual, but I suppose it could happen.
 
Black Hole said:
Well, one example I could think of:

A man with a gun threatens to kill your child/ lover, or kill another hostage. It's your choice who he kills. Then after he kills the hostage, he gives you the same choice again.

Seems unusual, but I suppose it could happen.

So there is real threat to me and/or my child in your hypothetical situation....???
 
^LOL ...I was thinking the same exact thing after i posted! hehe PB should just delete this entire thread, or do it all over, as it stands it is garbage. :\
 
I'm with the rest of the people here.. why do I have to kill them to live if they aren't going to kill me?
 
If I had a lover.... i would kill a few good men.

I hate to say this... but we all want to be 'good' but what if you're God and it's YOUR CHOICE?

I mean.. the woman you've loved for the longest time... it's her dead... or a complete fucking stranger loses his life.

umm.. people die every day... why let it be your lover?

or child?

I choose them over me...



but then again... to save myself? I might handpick a few... haha
 
I don't understand these hypotheticals, they're totally irrational

why would I be in a position where I needed to kill innocents to save another innocent? Who is threatening my child/spouse/myself? How will killing innocents help them/me? I'm so very very confused
 
Only repressed minds need to have the hypothetical explained. If you cannot think of one possible scenario where killing a stranger would save yourself or another person, you are retarded. I don't mean that as an insult, I mean it literally. I bet if Sohi's life were at stake, he COULD think up a hypothetical situation where his life depended on the death of some one who was a stranger to him. That's a compliment to him, in that I don't think he really is retarded.

Anyway, if you don't want to play, don't bother. No one is forcing you to take the quiz. But don't give some lame excuse about how it is impossible for you to imagine any scenario, however remote or fantastic or unlikely, in which you could face a choice like this. That's a cop out. Hell, just look at the movie the Good Son, mother had to choose between saving her evil child or her good nephew. Or there could be a deadly disease and only enough medicine to cure one person. The possibilities are only as limited as your imagination.

And FYI, the point of ethical issues like this is not to prepare you for what you would do in case this came up in real life. So the fact that these hypotheticals are incredibly unlikely does not lessen their value. The point is to think about your moral compass and how it compares to others, to help you understand your own gut-level sense of right and wrong.

Most people read these questions and knee-jerk a "no killing" response, because we are ingrained to think that killing is bad, except when you are killing some one who is, themselves, trying to kill you or some innocent person. Killing an innocent person to save yourself is not the same.

On the other hand, many cultures (including American culture) value family very high. And many also promote the idea that no power or force is greater than love.

So, if you believe that nothing is more important than your child's life, theoretically you might see it as moral to kill however many strangers as necessary to save your child. It would be interesting to see if the answers of those with children varied from those without on average. This might mean that whatever you THINK you'd do to save your child when you have no real child, there is some biological imperative that will click in when you really do have a child that will change the way you think.

And so many media outlets, movies, novels, promote the idea that people should be willing to do anything for love, that a person might have to go ahead and kill strangers to save a loved one. Hell, this has been used many times as a gimmick in stories where a person is forced to help bad people kill lots of innocent people because the bad people have that person's spouse or child hostage.

Lastly, there is a problem of getting into a more specific hypothetical because every fact you add will have some effect on the result. Maybe some one could let others die by giving the only cure to their own child, but they do not think they could shoot another person if they were ordered to do it if they wanted to see their child again. Communication -- hell, all cognitive processes -- are inherently a method of simplification and generalization. To say "I like ice cream" might seem specific, but what about ice cream made from raw pork? From snails?

So to communicate ideas, we must generalize and simplify reality. The same goes for ethics. The Bible says "thou shalt not kill" but most Christians find many implicit exceptions that allows them to kill.

What is the difference between understanding the ethical implification of the phrase "thou shalt not kill" and or the phrase "thou shalt not kill an innocent stranger to save your child"? Hell, the latter phrase is MORE specific, more detailed than the biblical phrase. All you have to do is ask yourself whether you think the latter phrase conveys a correct moral view or not, knowing that it will STILL be a generalization subject to some exceptions, same as "thou shalt not kill."

The big lesson is that those who jumped on the "Hey, this is too vague to possibly answer" band-wagon, to recognize that there is something in you that is obstructionistic, narrow-minded and/or fearful in your ethical reasoning. You might want to consider why you were so eager to sidestep this quiz with a lame excuse about how the hypotheticals are too vague to answer, or could never be possible no matter how unlikely a scenario we are permitted to imagine. The bottom line is you do NOT need more specifics to answer. Just answer. Done. Is that so hard? And if you DID need more specifics (which you don't), you could easily have invented them yourselves without much effort. Why so reluctant? Certainly not lack of time, or you would not have bothered posting on here. Rather, you seem to find something threatening in the very idea of committing yourself to an ethical position whose ramifications you cannot fully think out ahead of time.

What, you want to avoid a "trap"? Are you afraid you'll state an ethical position which can then be used to show that, to be consistent, you must support a war you currently oppose, or oppose a war you currently support, or give more money to charity, or stop buying Nike shoes? See, finding your ethical inconsistencies is not a trap, it is the crux of improving your ethical position. Because if you DO have ethical inconsistencies, that is a problem you should uncover and fix, not something you should run away from with your hands over your ears screaming "la-la-la...I can't hear you--la-la-la...I'd rather not know if I have ethical inconsistencies...la-la-la." But, in essence, that is what those like SoHi and wanderer are doing.

~psychoblast~
 
^lalalala i cant hear you! ;)

Dude, just admit it, the hypothetical you gave is unrealistic. If you give an actual example intstead of writing an entire page of stuff saying that we should be able to come up with a hypothetical, or we are retarded. Just give us an example and we will play! :p

Afterall, it is YOUR thread, dude!
 
Short quiz because I'm curious what normal ethics are on these topics:

  • 1. How many adult strangers would you kill to save yourself (the strangers are NOT trying to kill you)?

    1


    2. Would your answer change if the strangers were children? If yes, how?

    yes, because they are young


    3. How many adult strangers would you kill to save your child (the strangers are NOT trying to kill your child)?

    I will never have children, so my answer is n/a


    4. Would your answer change if the strangers were children? If yes, how?

    see answer for question 2 ( above )


    5. How many adult strangers would you kill to save your lover/spouse/soul mate?

    as many as I can/could


    6. Would your answer change if the strangers were children?

    see answer for question 2 ( above )
 
Sohi:

Answering the questions in this quiz is no more complicated than naming your favorite color. Can you do that? Have you ever done that?

If you say "Red", then some one might give you a pair of red shoes...uh, but maybe you don't like your SHOES to be red. Some one might say, "So you'd like your house painted red?" Well, maybe that would be too much red. The quiz simply provides a very general question. It is not a flaw that it is not specific about the details, in fact it could not be more specific without losing its value as a measure of general ethical attitudes.

Can you name a favorite food? What if you say steak, and I offer you ostrich steak, but then you clarify you meant beef steak, so I offer you a raw piece of filet mignon, but then you clarify it needs to be cooked, so I offer you perfectly cooked steak with chocolate sauce, then you clarify that it can't have other stuff on it. So finally I give you a perfectly cooked steak with everything just the way you like it, and you say, "Yes, that is my favorite food." So then I offer to give you that food every meal, since it is your favorite, but you protest that no, you'd get sick of it if you ate too much and then you'd have a different favorite.

We generalize all the time, just like in this quiz. If you can name a favorite color, if you can name a favorite food, you can answer the questions in this quiz. Your insistence upon specifics is just more fleeing from gaining self-knowledge, and you want to try to twist your flight into some kind of positive attribute.

And regardless of your CHOICE not to answer the questions, the bottom line is that the questions CAN be answered, as proven by the fact that people have already gone through and answered the question. Gee...how was that possible? If it were impossible, shouldn't they have imploded or something before they managed to post their responses? Duh...

Remind me not to ask you your favorite color, because unless you are inconsistent, you should insist that you cannot answer the question without more specifics. Then again, your obsession with discrediting the quiz shows you may have issues with trying to avoid confronting your own inconsistencies, so maybe you could answer the color question.

~psychoblast~
 
Well then why dont you just give us a specific example so we all have something to go by? Entertain me, i am retarted. Why are you wasting so much time avoiding giving an example? 8(
 
1. How many adult strangers would you kill to save yourself (the strangers are NOT trying to kill you)?

Tough question. I bet its harder when you actually have to do it. I probably couldn't do it.

2. Would your answer change if the strangers were children? If yes, how?

No killing of children. I'd rather off myself.

3. How many adult strangers would you kill to save your child (the strangers are NOT trying to kill your child)?

That's tough. I probably would though.

4. Would your answer change if the strangers were children? If yes, how?

Seems rather selfish to do that. I couldn't make such a choice.

5. How many adult strangers would you kill to save your lover/spouse/soul mate?

The world. As a sentiment only. Depends on what she thinks. She'd tell me what to do. :D I'd probably have to kill her and then kill myself (In the situation I'm thinking of).

6. Would your answer change if the strangers were children?

Couldn't do it. Again refusal to make such a choice.
 
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