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Heroin Heroin and Respitory depression

M

mike.vick

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
972
Is RD the main thing that kills people with heroin? How deadly is heroin? I think I read that the ed50 and ld50 were only 6x apart. Meaning that the dose for you to feel the effects is only six times less than the lethal dose. Plus i feel like it builds up in your system to where you are not high but just respiratory depressed.

I get so paranoid about RD that I take tons of caffeine pills/ chug coffees after snorting heroin sometimes. This just leads to panic and even more breathing problems and light headedness as if i'm going to faint. A ton of famous people have utterly died from heroin. It's so scary. It's super desperate, too.
 
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I would cut out the caffeine you are actually just making the problem worse. RD is a common way to OD on dope yes. BUT usually it is in people who are not tolerant or mixing CNS depressants. If you are just using dope and just feeling high you are probably not riding that line. IV use is one of the big ones because sometimes you get a batch 10x more pure than the garbage you got before but do the same amount not knowing and just IV the whole bag then BOOM dead. Nasal is usually a safer route as you can start with a small bump to asses purity, then go from there.

If you are this paranoid when you are taking it I can not imagine that you are enjoying the high at all and at this point you are just trying to stave off the WD. Maybe it is time to start looking into some kind of treatment? Subs? The time it gets REALLY dangerous with H is when you have exhausted all of you brains neuro-chemicals and don't get euphoria from dope anymore. You just get sleepy. A lot of people who have ODd think that they just are not doing enough because there is no euphoria. So they go from sniff to the needle, or demand higher purity or do like 8 bags. They just get sleepier and sleepier until like a puff of smoke RD hits and they are gone. So that is what I would be the most careful with. I don't think you are at this level yet but if you are really this worried you really have the best reason in the world to quit right now: LIFE! Best of luck brother, stay safe. If you need help or anything you can PM me.
 
I think I read that the ed50 and ld50 were only 6x apart. Meaning that the dose for you to feel the effects is only six times less than the lethal dose.
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This is strictly true only in users without an opioid tolerance, tolerance to the respiratory depressant effects of heroin/opioids will build quite rapidly to the point where a chronic heavy user can take doses of opioids that would kill a naive person.

If you have any sort of pre-existing tolerance and you know the signs of taking too much opioid you can rest somewhat easier. Most people who die from heroin induced respiratory depression do so after a long period of abstinence or when deciding to increase their dose or combine it with other depressants.

And yeah, taking loads of caffeine won't reverse a true overdose... it can increase respiratory rate but in the long term it will only make you feel worse.
 
Thanks guys ^^, I was under the impression that tolerance builds to histamine release and other side effects, but not much to RD.
 
OP, not sure where you live, but many public health departments in the US give out naloxone (narcan), which might help your concerns. when used properly and quickly, naloxone will pull you right out of most ODs. of course, you need a buddy there to spot you...personally, i haven't figured out how to hit myself with narcan when i've fallen out ;).
 
sekio said:
This is strictly true only in users without an opioid tolerance, tolerance to the respiratory depressant effects of heroin/opioids will build quite rapidly to the point where a chronic heavy user can take doses of opioids that would kill a naive person.

If you have any sort of pre-existing tolerance and you know the signs of taking too much opioid you can rest somewhat easier. Most people who die from heroin induced respiratory depression do so after a long period of abstinence or when deciding to increase their dose or combine it with other depressants.

And yeah, taking loads of caffeine won't reverse a true overdose... it can increase respiratory rate but in the long term it will only make you feel worse.
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I won't pretend to know things I don't. And everything you said seems to ring true and be helpful.

However, regarding the 6x time difference, you said that tolerance will increase toward the RD effect. But this fact in itself doesnt necessarly means that the 6x difference would be true only to opiate naive as not only will tolerance toward RD will be increased in a regular user but tolerance to the minimal dose to feel something will also increase.
 
Well, an old friend of mine used to inject upwards of 500mg oxycodone in one IV. this would kill a naive user, this would kill many experienced chronic users too unless their tolerance was even close to this.
 
This is a huge dose but not so surprising. I did 2400 mg of Oxy in 24h once. At that time my maintenance dose was 680 mg a day. I felt very little on my maintenance dose and was about to quit for the first time so I chose to indulged in one last binged.

Still it only shows that people develop insane tolerance to opioids when the supply can sustain the progression. For those who wonder it didn't took me that long to get to this point either. I started using Oxy daily 6 to 8 months before that, and prior to start using daily I had used opiates recreationaly only for 2 to 3 months. But it doesn't enlighten us much on the gap between the threshold to feel an effect and the onset of respiratory depression.

What happened to your friend ?

Did he managed to quit or to lower his usage ?
 
Sorry to hear that.

Easy access to opiate makes it very easy to build tolerance.

May your friend rest in peace.
 
yeah thats why you can never be too careful especially dealing with potent CNS depressants.
 
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