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He who creates is also created

i agree that we create in the same way that we were created - particles fall into the lowest energy trajectories, and that's how the earth made people, and that's how people make tools, and that's how people make people.

and even those tools are not so distinct from people as we might think. tools are simply extension of our will, like our finger or using some other body part for any purpose

everything is one... the universe is a multidimensional fractal equation in the end (as far as we/i can see)
 
^I agree with this, but I think he means that with every creation we ourselves make, we are also born anew. Thus the beauty of the creative moment and the spiritual richness of truly creative people from all walks of life.
 
yeah, i thought you were going for the god thing. good thing i kept down the nail in his coffin, right off the bat ;)
 
Yes moke, creating is a process going who knows where and we get drawn up in the process.

Creating children certainly has no reliable indicators of where it is going to take you if you stay involved.

Paintings when I painted did move me to a new place that was not in anyway intended by me. Had I the discipline to write a story or an article I'm sure my mentality and emotions would be moving along with my "creation".

Others creations move me also, I am a different being for many movies I've seen and novels I've read. I don't know how much it applies to other sorts of creating beings or entities but I can not create without being created a bit in return.
 
As I read through this, I was hit with an image of a magnet shapeshifting iron filings. There's never stasis, and everything we encounter makes us different than before. That's the boon of consciousness. It's hard to put into words, but we recognize there's all this stuff around us, but know everything but the self is transient.
 
qwe said:
everything is one... the universe is a multidimensional fractal equation in the end (as far as we/i can see)
Click to expand...

I see my interpretation was not what he had in mind, didn't even consider that he could be talking about God. As an atheist/pantheist/apatheist/agnostic I dont even think in those terms.

But I have had similar thoughts as you in terms of the fractal nature of our universe.
I think it applies not only to the physical (i.e a toilet and a galaxy, or our veins vs. the trees vs. lightening vs. rivers vs. evolutionary history vs. temporal history[particularly if you are a believer in the "Many Worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics]) , but it also applies to the social variations within a given species, particularly the human species.
There are so many people who look the same or fall into different genres of personality or behavior traits, yet there are subtle varieties within any given individual of a group of hipsters/hippies/goths/preps/etc.

I think you and I probably have more similar thought patterns than people who have never done psychedelics or anything that brought us to bluelight, yet there are undoubtedly differences between us. We probably occupy similar looking fractal patterns within this equation, yet the subtle differences that would be imperceptible from a distance make all the difference and forever alter our lives.

Do you think it'd ever be possible to translate this thought into solid mathematical terms?
I'm really convinced social patterns are fractalized.
 
Do you think it'd ever be possible to translate this thought into solid mathematical terms?
I'm really convinced social patterns are fractalized.
Click to expand...
i think that levels of interaction reduce to their constituent levels - reductionism. so yeah, i would say that you could describe society methametically, and ourselves as well. to look at a human as a system is simply putting on a different lens, but looking at the same particles. the lens just groups together those particles into more usefully-sized pieces.

from the shapes of atoms, to DNA, to hurricanes, to the shapes of solar storms and galaxies and helices of millions of galaxies, we see that basic spiral shape. so i would definitely say that the universe appears to be a fractal.

i just don't see where consciousness enters the picture. i think that unknown mathematics contribute to the production of consciousness.
 
Well math is just a system of symbols to describe logical phenomena, 2+2=4 and it could never not be so.
Unless we're talking about acceleration or motion in physics, in which case relativity says that 2+2<4 by an extremely tiny amount, because if we say that 2=a boost of speed by 2 units, then 2+2 is double the boost of speed, but, because of acceleration, spacetime contracts by a measurable, but not necessarily noticable(depending on how much acceleration is represented by the units of speed) amount. But I digress.
If consciousness inhabits a physical system, which followed the rules of logic all throughout evolution, then there must (according to our current paradigm) be some way to come up with an equation where the answer is "consciousness."
Once we do I bet there'd be interesting answers that change the way we think about reality.
 
If consciousness inhabits a physical system, which followed the rules of logic all throughout evolution, then there must (according to our current paradigm) be some way to come up with an equation where the answer is "consciousness."
Once we do I bet there'd be interesting answers that change the way we think about reality.
Click to expand...
i just made a new phrase, "reality fabric" ;)

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showpost.php?p=9730187&postcount=28
 
An interesting thought came to my mind...

1) If the God was also created...
2) But if nothing existed at the very beginning...
3) and having evidence for the Big Bang...
We can conclude that Universe = God. :)

Too bad I am an atheist.
 
That might not be true. I think that applies to everything apart from the universe itself, It has never not existed, it simply just always has, as well as energy (just a thought..)
 
^ Well, there are some flaws in my logic, but it is funny for me, so I decided to share it.
 
Hello friends! I think this post is exciting as it reaches into many unanswered questions of philosophy. I believe that I may have answers to these questions, found in the Bhagavad-gita, spoken by the supreme personality of godhead himself.

This creativity that you are speaking of is called "Brahma". Brahma is the god of creation, he has created this entire manifested existence and every single aspect of its creation. No act of creation can exist without Brahma because Brahma is the very persona of creation itself. Everytime we assume the creative position, we are seated in Brahma, or Brahma is seated in us. Brahma exists through us all, we all exist through him. Without Brahma, nothing new could ever be manifested.

Now, Brahma is but one of the three major gods of this entire happening, or universe. Brahma is birth, Vishnu is life, and Shiva is the transcendental death that destroys us so that Brahma may again recreate us. It is important to understand that Vishnu is the supreme personality of godhead and supreme entity of the universe. Vishnu, or krishna, or the supreme personality, with his various names and guises, IS Brahma, IS Shiva, IS you and I. Vishnu is all of the elements that make everything possible, as well as the acts of which brought them together and the use for them. Vishnu is the cause of all causes, he is what is to be known, he is the object of meditation. Because this god is so supreme, so manifest, he is everything to everyone and is everywhere at all times, we couldnt possibly be able to communicate about him because every word we speak would be vishnu, vishnu, vishnu. SO, because of this fact, and in order to communicate properly, we understand that there is only one god of this entire creation and that is vishnu, but, because he is too manifest, we break this one god down into various aspects. The aspects are like different attitudes or actions that may be characterized and then identified with its own personal god. So, even though vishnu is both brahma and shiva, as well as pure and true to his own original form, we break him down linguistically and characterize him separately, so that we may worship him properly and with all of his aspects, as creator, maintainer and transcender of the entire universe that be.

What we are, as humans, are direct replicas of the universe. Within this body of ours contains all elements- earth, water, fire, air and space. It contain mountains and rivers, gardens and sanctuaries. This body of ours is an exact design of the universe to the yogi. Let this be understood. As gods children, and through gods grace and glory, we share his same enjoyment. Vishnu may be the god of the entire universe and non of this would be possible without he, but he has given us the opportunity to be our own gods, or isvaras. We are the center of our own universe, in a multidimensional vibration. We are our own gods, we are all that we have truly, and all that we will ever have. He has given us this opportunity so that he may see how we act, in accordance to the cosmic principles. What is the difference between the buddha and the beggar, other than ones level of self realization? So you can see, self realization is the name of the game. We are here to realize ourselves as gods and goddesses and to stick to these ideals, dropping our inferior nature as material beings and entering into the spiritual domain of the godly. This human life form is our final test, and we may pass it by realizing ourselves, or the god within us.

The OP said "he who creates is also created" I believe this is true, but may possibly be rephrased as "he who creates IS creation!"
 
^
sounds like the cipher code to the universe is the same one to ourselves, but the less we see ourselves as one of, and as only part of the universe, and in all essence the same - we only make things more confusing by thinking about it with how we have learned how to learn, and what we have been taught.

from here, i find that allowing these realizations only comes in the state of "neglect" of our thoughts and what we have been told, a state of peace to deeper realize our actual self, and being in our own unique place of peace.


our life, our world, ours to create our own sense of a sanctuary with - as long as our common sense of sanctuary seen...
 
panic in paradise said:
^
sounds like the cipher code to the universe is the same one to ourselves, but the less we see ourselves as one of, and as only part of the universe, and in all essence the same - we only make things more confusing by thinking about it with how we have learned how to learn, and what we have been taught.

from here, i find that allowing these realizations only comes in the state of "neglect" of our thoughts and what we have been told, a state of peace to deeper realize our actual self, and being in our own unique place of peace.


our life, our world, ours to create our own sense of a sanctuary with - as long as our common sense of sanctuary seen...
Click to expand...

Sorry, i am not exactly too sure what you are getting at, but..

Yes, the cipher code to the universe is the same as the one to ourselves, just as i heard from Terence Mckenna, as he quoted somebody of whom i forgot "nature is self similar across scale", meaning the same principles of the macrocosm, lie in the microcosm, or as alchemy says "as above, so below."

This may seem like something to "learn" but it is only from learning that one may obtain the realization. Information is a prerequisite to knowing without thought. If it werent so, then the buddha wouldnt have bothered to share his information of the four noble truths to end suffering. The teachings are said to be likened to a boat. You use this boat to get from suffering or illusion over to enlightenment and liberation, but in the end its just a boat. Let us not mistake the boat for the actual thing.
 
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