HBWR - Inexperienced - The joy of being alive

[Hypercloud]

Before starting this report, I wanted to apologize for the other thread opened in the psychedelic section: I was so happy I had to let the world know, so the forum rules got into a secondary layer So if you can, delete it.

Now, the experience...I think it is the most different HBWR trip between the countless reports I've read so far..and now you'll understand why...

I've ground 5 seeds to little shreds, and ate them while being in a great park, at 9:55... no one around me, just nature, a wonderful blue sky, and birds.

[T +0] . 10:00
I hate the 5 seeds by chewing them for a couple of minutes and swallowing the whole thing (with help of a quarter glass of orange juice).
The taste, luckily, didn't feel that bad too me, like eating a leaf or something like that, fully tolerable.
I started walking in a path trying to entertain myself to avoid the paranoia of waiting.

[T +30] . 10:30
Nothing but a little nausea rising (and so I thought "This must be good sing").

[T +60] . 11:00
The (mild) nausea was still there, but I couldn't notice nothing more than a little narcotic physic state, like being very tired... my head was still normal.

[T +90] . 11:30
After one fuckin hour and half, I begun to feel a little (very tolerable) pain over the legs near the groin... but NOTHING else: so I took my things, turned back to the scooter, and went home.

[T +120] . 12:00
I sat down in front of the pc...a little buzz (similar to marijuana's one) started to kick in as I was playing a clone of bejeweled over the internet...
Showtime...

[T +130] . 12:10
After more than 2 hours, effects were finally rising: I closed the game and started playing "Le follie dell'imperatore" by Disney (don't know the originale title... it's that one with the maya emperor changed into a llama..exhilarating)...outstanding, I was really entertained by the movie.

[T +150] . 12:30
My mood lifted higher and higher, I was having fun with true laughings, and felt really light, happy (note the word "happy".. not "hilarious", this was actually way better than that).

[T + 210] 13:30
As the movie ended, my mother came back home. Since last night I had slept almost nothing, I told her I had to sleep on the couch before leaving for work (at about 16:00)... that actually was a great idea, and I laid myself.
Until 15:30, my trip was a mix of nice feelings, creative ideas and excited mood: I started focusing on almost every object in the room.
I begun to see things different from what they was: a good example is my chinese vase, that have some fancy hand drawings over the whole surface, with animals and flowers... well, I saw a scene with two mythological beasts having sex (I know it's ridiculous ), both of them having a strange face and multicolored body...
That "two beasts having sex" actually was a peacock
Anyway, wave of happines and excitement were hittin me, giving myself a strong energy.

[T + 330] 15:30
I "woke up" and had a fresh shower... guys, that was awesome. I could feel the water over my skin with a brand new sensibility, giving my body even more energy, and shifting my mood into an even higher state of happiness and joy.
Forgot to mentions: till now (and after too) no hard nausea, no vomiting reflexes, no real pain... the opposite! I felt so good I could run, and dance (music sounded SO good man!), and talk to my mother without being "unmasked", cause I could contain myself without problems and my ability of speaking growth better.

[T + 360] 16:00
I waved hello to my mom, and exited to open air.. wow... the blue sky looked so HUGE, with a incredible brightness, the colors were lighter: a wonderful summer day, even powered up by this drug.
Till 16:40, I had my ride to reach the 10km away call center (I'm working as consulent in an italian cellphone provider)... and that was one of the best moment of my life! I felt really happy of being alive, feeling an innate joy for all that light, for the warm breeze, for the wonerful nature I was passing by.
And so I stopped for a cigarette (tasted better than usual, too)... the singing birds made me have a printed smile over my face... not a demential one, a happy one, aware of the beauties of the world and generated by the joy of being part of it.

[T + 400] 16:40
My work would have started only 30 minutes later, so I begun to talk with some friends, chilling out.
Man, there's no way to describe this: my social attitude was incredibly raised, I really enjoyed the vision of every single guy/girl I know.
And still, that wonderful, energyzing sensation.

[T + 430] 17:10
My work started and I begun to receive phone calls from customers...
I hated to be there, even if my work is quite funny, yesterday I only wanted to go outside and enjoy the sunshine...
The trip (if we can call this a trip, I don't know but I'm so happy it's turned this way) slowly slowed down.

[T + 690] 21:30
But even at 21:30, when I was back at home, I still felt a great sensation, like my life changed for something great happened to me.. I had my dinner and then I went to bed, thinkin 5 minutes before falling asleep, remembering the wonderful experience.

I slept for almost 10 hours, and now I feel absolutely peaceful and refreshed... moreover, I'm sure my life is quite changed, I feel like I've discovered again my innate correlation with nature, and my strong ability of being happy with little things... and this is wonderful, guys.

One last thing about the emotional state: my girlfriend is far from here at the moment, and I felt the need of contact her to share my happiness, that was brought even by thinking about here. Moreover, I made some important thoughts about us, like having a confirmation of my feelings about our story... and today, "sober", I realize they are the correct ones...

So.. what about this trip?!? I will go and talk with my vendor, since he assured me these seeds are very powerful... but why they kicked in after 2 hours?!? And why the fx lasted strong for about 6? Man, if my body react this way with LSA, I found the drug of my life, to be taken in certain days when I want to have a nice deep relation with World, to discover the real meaning of being happy just for being alive.
I'm a better man right now, I hope you'll have the opportunity of doing a trip like this...

 

[DJAngrE]

Hell yes,

LSA is the drug of my life too. I enjoyed morning glory seeds even more. Just such an unbelievably positive experience, the emotional rush at the beginning was incredible, but unlike mdma, the feelings never felt forced. i could take the trip in any direction i pleased. For me it took 4-5 hours to get there!!! yeah i think that's just how the seeds work man, gotta love them for it to, 'cause you drop your guard and expectations, and they blow you away every time.

If you like smoking cannabis, i would suggest adding a little bit to the experience, it will enhance it to a great degree. i.e. - a little goes a long way - but if not, i totally understand. i like to keep my favorite drugs clean too.

My girlfriend and I are taking 15 grams of morning glory to hawaii next week, oh god i can't wait. it will be her first time, i hope i can help her through her nausea if she has any. I never really got much nausea or cramping, just a sleepy spell for a few hours before the trip came on.

i really enjoyed hearing about your experience, makes me happy to read about people's opinions that i can relate to. LSA is simply perfect.

 

[Hessel R.K.]

Not HBWR seeds tho. They suck ass. What is the pain in your legs man? Is that vasoconstriction cuz you just ate cyanide? Yes, probably. Did you try those 5 seeds again? notice worse side effects and less high? I bet so!

My fuirst hbwr expirance was fucking awesome I ate 4 seeds. After that they were all ass. Seriously, sraping some husk offa them doesnt help you at all. They are poisonous.

 

[Piper methysticum]

LSA is, without a doubt, the most euphoric psychedelic I've every taken, though it has many better qualities than that. It is very powerful and more "real" than LSD, in my opinion.

 

[skylined]

I have yet to have a really profound experience on morning glory. I started out with eating 150 seeds of the Heavenly Blue variety (washed, crushed, and put in yogurt), felt all the nausea, then after that stage, my pupils got dilated, then nothing. Then I tried 307 seeds of the same variety...pretty much same effects, except no trip. Now I really don't want to give up on these things, as I love acid with a passion and it is never available around here.

Now how can I have a good trip off these? And if I should get the h.b. woodrose seeds, where do I get them?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Not HBWR seeds tho. They suck ass. What is the pain in your legs man? Is that vasoconstriction cuz you just ate cyanide?

Cyanide has never been isolated from baby woodrose seeds. That's called net gossip.

 

[Blowmonkey]

^ Then let me ask you; what else is able to produce such extreme physical discomfort when enough, or actually too much seeds have been ingested..? Ergotism..(?)

 

[Morninggloryseed]

what else is able to produce such extreme physical discomfort

Lots of things can make a person feel crappy and nauseous. Food poisoning, allergic reactions, or chemicals that seem to "upset" the stomach by nature.

There are soap-like glycosides in m.g/woodrose seeds and these are most likely responsible for much of the nausea. These are water soluble chemicals, and I've found whatever makes you sick does not make it into "seed tea", though this is at the expense of some of the better alkaloids in my opinion. I'm confident it these glycosides that produce much of the discomfort when eating the seeds. Another species or morning glory called Ipomea jalapa or purga is used to make a drug called "Jalap" which is taken as a purgative (makes you puke). This species is known to contain gylcosides, but no LSAs, and it is the glycosides that is the active principle of this "jalap" resin. But that is for another post.

Any leg pain (which I strangely never have experienced in all of my many m.g./woodrose seed trips) may be possible vasoconstrictive properties produced from some of the numerous ergot alkaloids present. Some ergot alkaloids (including ones found in trace amounts in the seeds) are used medically as vasoconstrictors. But it is just as likely the leg pain is psychosomatic. Lots of people take these seeds and do not report this side-effect. People feel/experience a lot of strange feelings when they are tripping. Especially if you have been told/know you are eating something related to ergot, a fungus which is most well-known for causing gangrene; then you are likely to "feel" leg pains.

And as for numbness, many people have reported feeling numbness in their extremities with LSD, psilocybin, and probably every other psychedelic. I don't think this is simply a side-effect of LSAs because other psychedelics do this too.

There have never been reports of morning glory seeds causeing ergotism and they have been a well-used/well-known psychedelic in parts of Central America since historical records have been kept. Even before then, statues of God's associated with entheogenic plants and other items found have been found with morning glories etched into them, along with mushrooms and other sacred psychedelic plants.

 

[Hypercloud]

After reading this report, would you all recommend a stronger dose? Because that wasn't a real trip, more like a high status...

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Go up slowly. The difference between five seeds and eights seeds can be great. I am just thinking of some gentle trips I had on five seeds, and two very intense trips I had on eight seeds. So do go up slowly because it does get very psychedelic when you reach the right dosage for you. Don't underestimate them.

 

[Blowmonkey]

Lots of things can make a person feel crappy and nauseous. Food poisoning, allergic reactions, or chemicals that seem to "upset" the stomach by nature.

There are soap-like glycosides in m.g/woodrose seeds and these are most likely responsible for much of the nausea.

There you go, Cyanogenic (Cyanide) glycosides are what I meant. But extreme physical discomfort does not mean I'm talking about an upset stomach..

I've had an unpleasant experience in which I consumed too many of these seeds (Argyreia nervosa) and experienced many of the symptoms that an overdose of glycosides would have set off (one of the symptoms of cyanide poisoning is labored breathing. Other symptoms include salivation, anxiety, headache, ataxia, vertigo, giddiness, lower-jaw stiffness and nausea, followed by convulsions, paralysis, coma, cardiac arrhythmia and respiratory failure).

I'm not alone on this, many other people have experienced such extreme physical discomfort, yet noone has come with an asnwer, what is to me, frustrating and annoying to say the least.. Btw, I'm confused.. In this recent post you talk about how these glycosides have never been isolated from HBWR, yet here, you tell people otherwise.. Am I missing something?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

There have been glycosides (described in one journal as "soap-like") isolated from psychedelic morning glory seeds (including the baby woodrose). These glycosides do not contain any cyanide, are not cyanogenic, and thus there is no cyanide in psychedelic morning glory seeds. Until someone produces a proper citation of a journal article (which I welcome) showing the isolation of cuch cyanide-containing compounds from these plants...the seeds do not have cyanide (or any form of it) in them.

I've researched this topic for years and spent a lot of time at library archives learning about these plants. I'm not saying I'm any kind of certified morning glory expert, but I've read probably every scientific article in english on them from the past 50 years. If you read the post from me you cited, then you would know that as I made it perfectly clear.

 

[Hessel R.K.]

Well thanks for clearing it up that theres no cyanide, but as for the leg pain, I know its 100% real because I felt it, as well as three of my fellow explorers, all of whom had no contact with each other during the trip, as well as no contact with any HBwoodrose info prior to the trip.

That pain is really bad stuff, enough to ruin the trip when sickness was only a minor bummer. But for my money, Id stick to your namesake rather than deal with HBWR seeds. In hawaii they arent even shamanastic, they are used by poor people as a cheap high.

Maybe it was different in the past, and I expect you to know because you researched this shit so much. so i await a reply

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Confirm what? I've read that the Argyreia nervosa was once used by Polynesians for various reasons on net sites that sell the seeds, but I don't see how that is true. Argyreia nervosa is native to India, and was only brought to Hawaii because it had a suitable climate to grow the seeds which are commercially used in dried flower arrangements.

To my knowledge, the presence of psychedelic compounds in Argyreia nervosa was not known till 1966 when alkaloids were first isolated from the seeds in a lab and reported that year in a journal. There are no studies or any journal articles I've ever seen that mention historic use of baby woodrose seeds for entheogenic purposes. Ever. I think the statement, that they were used by Polynesians for intoxication, is just more net bullshit, probably to help sell the seeds. The seeds did not even appear on those islands until they were colonized and then brought there for commercial growth. Not much time to establish a "history" with the locals.

As for heavenly blue morning glory vs baby woodrose seeds...that's personal preference. I never experienced leg pain on either. Both seeds make me nauseous, but I like only having to eat 4 to 8 seeds of the baby woodrose instread of several hundred heavenly blues. There is no reason one should be worse than the other either, as both seeds contain similar alkaloids. Different ratios of them, but mostly the same alkaloids.

 

[Blowmonkey]

There have been glycosides (described in one journal as "soap-like") isolated from psychedelic morning glory seeds (including the baby woodrose). These glycosides do not contain any cyanide, are not cyanogenic,

I thought you meant that these soap-like glycosides were in fact cyanogenic.. But I was wrong, sorry for the confusion. What I don't understand is that there is noone researching this phenomena, many, many people have had terrifying experiences with HBWR and we still don't know what the cause is for this. Gues we'll never find out, or maybe in 20 years..

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Can you clarify what you mean when you say terrifying? You mean mentally, physically, or both?

 

[Blowmonkey]

Both.. Some of the symptoms I had, consisted of; a sudden anxiety attack & confusion (on the verge of being psychotic), stabbing headache, vertigo, irregular breathing and Bpm, cramps and a general feeling of being "poisoned"..

Let me also tell you that I'm well aware of what a bad trip is and feels like, this was no "bad trip"..

 

[bluedolphin]

I have had trips from mg seeds and HBWR on both ends of the spectrum. Some were like ecstasy, others were full of the symptoms you just mentioned Blowmonkey.

Over time the trips began being more reliably unpleasant.

These reactions aren't due to any suspicious content in the seeds. They are a mild and temporary case of ergotism caused by the very LAAs which make you trip. This explains the cramps, headache, irregular breathing, and feeling of being poisioned. I believe the glycocides are mainly responsible for the nausea.

I suspect these effects caused you to become nervous and have an anxiety attack, causing confusion, vertigo, irregular bmp, as you described.

It is very possible that you had half "normal" symptoms (which some people never seem to get), and half a bad trip caused by this.

 

[Blowmonkey]

Yeah, it may very well be.. It's just that noone has a definitive answer, it's still a big mystery as to what really is the cause of these supposedly "bad trips" and scary symptoms..

 

[bluedolphin]

I don't think its really a mystery.

LSA is a master mindfuck of a drug, and bad trips can occur on any psychedelic. LSA, for me, is often a "dark" trip.

Certain LAAs found in the seeds cause vascular constriction, which is responsible for muscle cramps and various pains.

The tough nature of the seeds and the glycocides cause stomach pain and nausea.

Combine all these factors and its no mystery to me why bad trips and otherwise difficult experiences are common with HBWR/MG seeds.