Bupe Got clean..now what?

[KCdope]

New post name, use to post a lot. Anyways to make this brief I have been addicted to LARGE amounts of dope for 7 years, 5 of which on the needle. I just turned 22 and was using up to 2 grams of tar per hit, or prefferably one and a half 100mcg/h Fent patches per hit...these doses being taking up to 5 times a day. 15 100mc patches usually last me 3 days. I know, crazy. Anyways I finally KNOW i dont want to do this anymore. I want a real life where happiness doesnt come from sticking <no prices> dollars worth of smack in my arm. So anyways I joined a methadone clinic about a year ago and weaned my way down to 30mg in order to switch to suboxone. Mainly to un-cuff myself from the clinic and it being an hour away from my house doesnt help. So anyways, I get down to 30 for a while, then get 15 patches which i did over the 3 days to make the switch easier. Well apparently i didnt wait long enough because in 5 minutes i was 10 times sicker than any horrid withdrawal ive ever been in. I mean delerious, seeing things, suicidal, the works. So anyways i ride out the day of hell and by recommendation, instead of returning to the clinic , the next morning score something short acting (h, fent) to hold me off until im ready to try again. So im back to shooting dope for 2 days or so and took my last hit monday. I waited 48 hours and am pretty sure i coulda taken it way earlier i was just not about to chance the hell of the PWDs. Anyone whose ever taken theirs too early knows what i mean. Finally this morning i was obviously very sick so i took it and it worked! I feel alot better (still very mild symptoms) but anyways getting to the point..

During my 7 year run i had a rapid detox preformed by the waismann program in CA. After the surgery, they took me to this resort type place called Domus. Its for recovering addicts to relax in a total stress free environment. I mean the works, massages, heated pool, personal chef, intense therapy. It actaully made me feel like my life was worth living again.

I am not looking for a detox because i want to stay on the subs long enough to get used to normal life while not being able to use at the same time.. I live in a small town and if i stay around i will relapse. I was offered 5 different things just today and my cravings are killing me. All i know is junkie life and i know ill fall right back in if i dont get away. My parents will cover all costs, I was just curious as to any other post-detox, stress free type resorts in the us that anyone has any experience with. With the ammount of cravings and depression and all around self-dislike i know im not gonna make it unless i get away soon. a couple weeks can really chance your perception on yourself and thats what i need more than anything right now. I know i would still be clean to this day from the program if i didnt have to return to junkie roomates. Any help would be very much appreciated.


p.s. MY doc prescribed 3 8mg subutex a day and ive already taken 3 and a half over the day and am still in very mild wds.. do i just need to wait for it to build up a couple days or do i need to keep taking small bits until im better?

thanks you to anyone who takes the time to read this, and especially to anyone with helpful feedback

Also, Im wondering if these places will let me stay being on subutex and all..i know the point is to come to detox then relax and be pampered and work on the underlying issues causing me to use in the first place. But even if i did have the money to get knocked out for 3 hours and be completely clean i know im not ready to be clean. I need the subutex to keep me from using until i can get my life back (or start one at all). I know people on subs still use all the time but theres no way any high would get me to use after that day of the precipitated withdrawals...just knowing theres a chance that could happen again. because i know if i accidently took that pill to early again i would end up doing something drastic. I just dont know if they would undertand/be ok with that. I know domus would be fine but 15 gs isnt easy to come by. Any advice pleace im just really scared. Ive eated like 12 2mg kpins today and my hearts still beating out my chest. I just want to feel normal. Please help me.

Im sorry, just trying to convey my point. Noted. No one have any input?

 

[Jabberwocky]

NorCal or SoCal? If you're in the LA are, or can get there, check out the Gooden Center. Highly recommended Serious. But about the sub, many rehabs and sober living houses will let you take them, although they will dose you and hold on to your meds so they can know they're not being abused.

Don't mean to be a dick, but...

To answer the question, "Got clean, now what?" Well, stay clean! At once it's so fucking simple, yet so fucking hard. Get as much support as you can. I find other addicts with some good recovery time, or in an environment geared towards recovery, has helped me IMMENSELY. I doubt I could have even lasted a week without these folks.

So is this the season to get clean, or what? I mean, I don't think I've seen so many threads about getting of opiates than I have recently, although that just might be me... or the fact I'm getting clean right now... Whatever, this is neither here nor there.

Oh, and two more things. Next time, use the edit feature in the bottom left of your post, as opposed to double/triple posting. Also, it takes time to get people to reply, so gotta be patient. Especially if you want some good input. That shit being said...

Being around other recovering addicts has done way, way more than any med has, in response to you bit about the pins. I know this is the case for many, many of our fellows. As always, it's not so simply though. Many others need certain meds, it's just that I'm not one of them so I don't really know (well, actually I do take 10mg lexapro, but I don't really consider that in the same class as benzos, for obvious reasons).

 

[Grand Touring]

How long have you been on subs?

 

[KCdope]

sorry, been a while since ive done the whole forum thing.. I have now been on for subs for about 16 hours. Do you think im still mildly uncomfortable because i havent gotten my dosage right or what? I was on subs for 8 months or so a few years back and as soon as the doc gave me the pill i was all perky and happy, almost high you could say..but today ive just been stuck in this like purgatory state of mild wds(i mean very mild) but i wasnt like instantly myself again like my first go round, then again my habit was probably a 5th of what it is now. and i remember having very strong anti-depressant/anti anxiety symptoms as well as a decrease in cravings. Right now im popping benzos like candy and im still abnormally anxious, as well as depressed. Im not expecting to take the right dose and magically be all high. i just want to feel like im done wding. thats whats really freaking me out

 

[Grand Touring]

Sorry, but you just need to chill, and lay of the benzos. I hate to preach to the choir, but that's a ton of klonopin along with your first dosing a subutex? You sound super anxious, and it's probably part due to your preconceptions made from your prior run-around. Yes, give your body some time to deal with your sub regimen.

What route of administration are you using to take your bup?

 

[KCdope]

sublingually. I snorted one of the halves trying to speed it up but it hurt like a bitch. Im not IVing em, i know that would probably take me out with the benzos in me. Im just smoking a blunt, trying to chill. I have an appt. with my doc at 12:30 so thats making me feel a lil better. I just want to know why i fee SO much better but am still in mild mild withdrawal. Its just more annoying than anything not understanding what's going on. I used to get off my subs all the time and never got back on too early. And it was always like sick one second, bam the next im feeling fine. I just don't get it. Its just frustrating being someone that always can go buy a quick fix to any problem having to sit here in this fucked up half wd having no idea if its gonna get better. Im sorry, now I'm just bitching. Thank you for your help.

And i would neeeever take that many benzos it just happened over time.. 2mg klonopins were literally feeling like 2.5 mg valiums or something..i mean over time i got some relief but it no way was I even drowsy from them.

Im just now starting to feel like sedated. Im just gonna relax.

 

[mr. mudd]

I have a pet theory that sub is bad for those with tendencies to anxiety or mania. I came down from a very large habit in a very short time using sub--10mg made me crazy, so they brought me down to 4mg. At 4mg I could at least catch two hours of sleep on the days I didn't have to work, but it was a bit like being on blow all the time. it's hard to say whether that was sub or withdrawal, as I'm still manic as hell after two weeks of zero.

anyway, sub may not be for you. if you were stable on methadone and you don't want to come off of opiates then I'd go back to it. it's better than having a big benzo habit and a sub habit. once you feel like coming off the methadone I'd recommend a blind taper--not knowing the actual numbers can be helpful.

also, have your liver checked while you're on sub. some people don't process it as well.

 

[BrokedownPalace]

I merged your posts. If you want to go back and add something before anyone replies just hit the "Edit" button on the bottom right of the post.

 

[sweetnicci07]

When I switched from Methadone to Buprenorphine (Suboxone) I definitely didn't feel "right" for several days. I did the same thing you did - took the Bupe too soon even though I waited more than the amount of time the Doctor told me to - and I agree that the PWD's were the worst thing I have ever felt!

Anyway ~ within 4-5 days I started to feel closer to *normal* but I had to taper myself down to a much lower dose of Suboxone before I really felt like I was OK. I personally feel like anything more than 4mg within a 24 hour period makes you feel worse....no energy, headaches and so on. When I was first on Suboxone in 2006 my doc had me on 24mg per day (3 8mg pills to be taken ALL at ONCE!) so that was what I took for over a year. I couldn't stand the way I was feeling so I started to do a little research on the internet about it and read about bupe being better for most people in lower doses. I was very surprised by how much more I got out of it once I dropped down to taking a few 1mg doses through out the day!!!

Do you think maybe you could not take anymore Subutex for a day or so and then take only about 2mg or so at first, then see how you feel in an hour?? Also, I don't want to tell you to do something that is not a good behavior for an addict but I personally think that insuffulating(sp) them makes a HUGE difference in how they make you feel.

I agree with Mr.Mudd - if Subutex doesn't do the trick for you then maybe Methadone is what's right for you. For some that is the only medication that will keep them out of withdrawal and control their cravings. Good luck!!!

 

[Secobarbital]

New post name, use to post a lot. Anyways to make this brief I have been addicted to LARGE amounts of dope for 7 years, 5 of which on the needle. I just turned 22 and was using up to 2 grams of tar per hit, or prefferably one and a half 100mcg/h Fent patches per hit...these doses being taking up to 5 times a day. 15 100mc patches usually last me 3 days. I know, crazy. Anyways I finally KNOW i dont want to do this anymore. I want a real life where happiness doesnt come from sticking <no prices> dollars worth of smack in my arm. So anyways I joined a methadone clinic about a year ago and weaned my way down to 30mg in order to switch to suboxone. Mainly to un-cuff myself from the clinic and it being an hour away from my house doesnt help. So anyways, I get down to 30 for a while, then get 15 patches which i did over the 3 days to make the switch easier. Well apparently i didnt wait long enough because in 5 minutes i was 10 times sicker than any horrid withdrawal ive ever been in. I mean delerious, seeing things, suicidal, the works. So anyways i ride out the day of hell and by recommendation, instead of returning to the clinic , the next morning score something short acting (h, fent) to hold me off until im ready to try again. So im back to shooting dope for 2 days or so and took my last hit monday. I waited 48 hours and am pretty sure i coulda taken it way earlier i was just not about to chance the hell of the PWDs. Anyone whose ever taken theirs too early knows what i mean. Finally this morning i was obviously very sick so i took it and it worked! I feel alot better (still very mild symptoms) but anyways getting to the point..

During my 7 year run i had a rapid detox preformed by the waismann program in CA. After the surgery, they took me to this resort type place called Domus. Its for recovering addicts to relax in a total stress free environment. I mean the works, massages, heated pool, personal chef, intense therapy. It actaully made me feel like my life was worth living again.

I am not looking for a detox because i want to stay on the subs long enough to get used to normal life while not being able to use at the same time.. I live in a small town and if i stay around i will relapse. I was offered 5 different things just today and my cravings are killing me. All i know is junkie life and i know ill fall right back in if i dont get away. My parents will cover all costs, I was just curious as to any other post-detox, stress free type resorts in the us that anyone has any experience with. With the ammount of cravings and depression and all around self-dislike i know im not gonna make it unless i get away soon. a couple weeks can really chance your perception on yourself and thats what i need more than anything right now. I know i would still be clean to this day from the program if i didnt have to return to junkie roomates. Any help would be very much appreciated.


p.s. MY doc prescribed 3 8mg subutex a day and ive already taken 3 and a half over the day and am still in very mild wds.. do i just need to wait for it to build up a couple days or do i need to keep taking small bits until im better?

thanks you to anyone who takes the time to read this, and especially to anyone with helpful feedback

Also, Im wondering if these places will let me stay being on subutex and all..i know the point is to come to detox then relax and be pampered and work on the underlying issues causing me to use in the first place. But even if i did have the money to get knocked out for 3 hours and be completely clean i know im not ready to be clean. I need the subutex to keep me from using until i can get my life back (or start one at all). I know people on subs still use all the time but theres no way any high would get me to use after that day of the precipitated withdrawals...just knowing theres a chance that could happen again. because i know if i accidently took that pill to early again i would end up doing something drastic. I just dont know if they would undertand/be ok with that. I know domus would be fine but 15 gs isnt easy to come by. Any advice pleace im just really scared. Ive eated like 12 2mg kpins today and my hearts still beating out my chest. I just want to feel normal. Please help me.

Im sorry, just trying to convey my point. Noted. No one have any input?

Precipitated withdrawals only last about 30-45 min. It's a really bad 30-45 min, but thats all it's ever lasted with me. Unless maybe you had a huge tolerance, and somehow did not take enough bupe (hard to do). Quite frankly going somewhere and doing nothing but thinking is probably the hardest way to kick it. The best thing you can do is get active, push yourself. Get off opiates though, and don't unnecessarily go on sub. Don't develop a benzo habit you don't need either. You might be like me, I can't even talk anymore if I don't have a valium or something. I have GAD that sprung up worse b/c of extreme opiate and benzo addiction and abuse. I can stay squeaky clean forever and I still stay so nervous I shake, grit my teeth, can't talk. It lasts for months, it doesn't go anywhere. I can't even walk out the front door. I take 20mg of valium per day, it's all good. I am on a light sub maintenance, maybe 100-200 micrograms per day now because I was in a car wreck and have to take opiate painkillers sometimes to work. I snort it so I absorb more of it. I keep my doses so low its unbelievable, and I still don't want to run out, I feel like shit. If you are at the point where you have w/d'ed and detoxed using suboxone, I'd walk away now. It's your best option. It's hard on your head for a while, but stick it out. You WILL go through it at some point anyway, might as well be now.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Clonazepam actually causes me to be anxious ad depressed, hence why I refuse to take it anymore.

 

[Secobarbital]

Clonazepam actually causes me to be anxious ad depressed, hence why I refuse to take it anymore.

It's possible for some people to get the opposite effects from any drug. I've seen people get sick and throw up from phenegrin. I've taken oxycontin and gotten a headache. When it comes right down to it, we are all truly a little bit different. Sometimes a drug can have the opposite effect than what 99% of everyone else has. No matter what it is, I always take a tiny bit of stuff before I go for the gusto. Even when I get prescribed a new medication I will take a tiny piece of a pill to make sure I at least don't have an allergy. Every batch of any street drug I get, I take a small amount first to make sure if it's cut with anything, It's not something I'll die from. People do stupid stuff for money sometimes, and could easily cut stuff with something they think is safe when it's really not. It's possible that someone could not at all be trying to harm anyone, but gets stuff mixed up, or doesn't catch the addition of a new ingredient in their usual cut, you never know anything except that it's better safe than sorry.

 

[d0pesikk]

With bupe, less is more. Why? Because your body metabolizes buprenorphine into norbuprenorphine. Norbuprenorphine has a lower affinity for your opiate receptors but more activity than buprenorphine. Thus norbuprenorphine makes you feel better BUT here's the catch: if you have too much buprenorphine on your receptors then the norbuprenorphine cannot attach due to buprenorphine having the higher affinity than norbuprenorphine. Remember that you must take less buprenorphine so that some receptors can be left open for the norbuprenorphine to attach to.

Bottom line- norbuprenorphine feels better but you must leave it a parking spot on your brain.

I feel much better with 2mg of sub than 4 or 8mg. That's why people are able to taper so easily.

 

[Secobarbital]

With bupe, less is more. Why? Because your body metabolizes buprenorphine into norbuprenorphine. Norbuprenorphine has a lower affinity for your opiate receptors but more activity than buprenorphine. Thus norbuprenorphine makes you feel better BUT here's the catch: if you have too much buprenorphine on your receptors then the norbuprenorphine cannot attach due to buprenorphine having the higher affinity than norbuprenorphine. Remember that you must take less buprenorphine so that some receptors can be left open for the norbuprenorphine to attach to.

Bottom line- norbuprenorphine feels better but you must leave it a parking spot on your brain.

I feel much better with 2mg of sub than 4 or 8mg. That's why people are able to taper so easily.

This makes perfect sense. I never knew how to explain it to people, but a couple hundred micrograms of sub feels like taking a hydro or two. I get a tiny little buzz off of it, but if I go do a bunch more trying to exploit it, I block it out. I mean that's really what happens although I've never been able to explain why it was like that or what was happening. Thanks for that bit of info, that's golden.

 

[d0pesikk]

^^no problem. It's really sad that 99% of prescribing doctors out there don't get this & when a "junkhead" tries to explain it to them they get all pissy. LOL