God Paradox

What happens when an irresistable cannonball hits an immovable post?
If you postulate an omnipotent being (such as the "God" you refer to in your above post), then nothing is outseide their ability... they can do "anything".
So, essentially, if God created a stone so heavy that He could not lift it, God would be choosing to do so, so it would be more of a matter that God created a stone so heavy that He wouldn't lift, not that He couldn't lift.
There would be no way of determining whether the object could in fact be lifted by God or not; you'd have to take God's word for it.
I'm not going to even get into the physics angle of your query (such as weight being a measure of gravity on an object, rather than being an absolute measurement of any sort), since I doubt you gave such issues much thought when you constructed the query.
 
As Fox so eloquently stated - an omnipotent being would be able to do ANYTHING it wanted - assuming it has something similar to what we call wants. I for one find it hard to imagine that an omnipotent being would even bother to create such a stone, as (being omnipotent) it would already know the outcome of any event it put into action. There would be no point in creating a heavy stone to see if it could be lifted, as this omnipotent being would know beforehand whether or not it would choose to lift it.
 
Thank you very much for the replies.
I can see from your point of view, but I don't think it is a matter of 'choice.' If God chooses not to lift the stone that means that he still can lift the stone.
Choosing not to lift the stone and not being able to lift the stone are two different situations.
For all I know, God could be lying to me...
And please enlighten me about the physics of this problem. Because I have thought about it, and I could give you the same question in physics terms, but it would be about half a page long.
 
Maybe he could perform the task at hand for a specified period of linear time, before ending the experiment. So could God create a stone so heavy he could never ever lift it ? That's a toughie. Well, within reality as we know it this is a paradox, but perhaps God could create two realities or do something nifty within a non-linear time frame. i.e. he could in ways we could not possibly imagine.
A similar paradox is "can God get lost ?". This is not meant to be sarcastic BTW.
 
Asmodeus To Infintity! and Beyond! said:
And please enlighten me about the physics of this problem. Because I have thought about it, and I could give you the same question in physics terms, but it would be about half a page long.
As I stated above, weight is a measure of gravitational attraction rather than of absolute value... it is a combination of the MASS of an object and the FORCE of GRAVITY for whatever body the object is setting upon. The force of gravity a body exerts on another body is determined by its own mass, so in reality weight is a measure of the gravitational attraction between two bodies based upon their mass.
For example, a rock that wieghs 100 punds on the Earth would weigh about 19 pounds on the Moon (much less massive then Earth), and about 250 pounds on Jupiter (much more massive).
When you beging discussion of objects of the mass necessary for your paradox, weight begins to lose its meaning. What you are really asking is "Can God create an object so massive that He cannot overcome the gravitational pull exerted by its immense mass?"
When you begin to talk about items that massive, factors such as the gravitational pull bending the fabric of time itself become a factor. The most massive objects we postulate exist are black holes, from which "nothing can escape". There are all sorts of interesting theories concerning conditions under gravitational force that immense.
Could God himself escape from such an immense gravitational force? If not, what would happen to God? Would God be "destroyed"?
To extrapolate any of the answers to these questions we would have to know a lot more about God. One of the basic questions would be "what is God made of?"
Once again, your query shows the problems and limitations inherent in trying to apply simple deductive logic to a definitionally abstract concept as "God".
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Hey Fox, normally I tend to agreewith you, but this time you seem to be trying to win an argument by confusing the situation. No matter how many conundrums you feel the need to solve before you solve your basic question, the basic question is still "Can god make a mountain he cannot move."
 
(Upon further reflection...) It suppose it could be looked at as a paradox for the following reason:
If God is omnipotent, then it can do anything - including lifting the heaviest stone in all of creation or creating a stone so heavy that it could not be lifted. Herein lies the paradox:
If God could create a stone so heavy it could not be lifted, it would prove his supremacy because creating this heavy stone certainly falls under the category of "being able to do anything" - at the same time, the creation of this heavy stone would make it appear that he was not omnipotent after all, as he should surely be able to lift the damned stone if he were all powerful.
On the flip side... If God created the heaviest stone ever and was still able to lift it, this would prove his omnipotence; yet not being able to create a stone so heavy it could not be lifted wouldn't make him seem so all-powerful after all.
We are making some fairly large and perhaps erroneous assumptions in asking this question, however:
God is an omnipotent being.
God can make choices and decisions.
God has wants and urges that drive it to act.
Things that affect us, (such as weight/mass/gravity) would also have an affect on God.
God’s got somethin’ to prove (such as it’s own powerlessness… which would in itself appear paradoxical as an supreme being would already be aware of it’s own omnipotence, and thus have no reason to see if it could do anything.)
Also important to note, I think, is what Neural_Shock mentioned: this is only a paradox as we define it - and it only has meaning to us, it's our word. To an omnipotent being, perhaps this isn't a paradox at all. Our tiny minds can only comprehend a fraction of the information we are constantly bombarded with, and things that baffle us, such as the idea of two seemingly contradictory (again, our definition) statements being true at the same time, are given labels such as “paradoxical.”
 
This experiment would have to happen on a planet of a certain mass; therefore it would have a gravitational pull on objects on the planet. If the stone was in deep space far from any planet or star, it would be weightless, and it would require little to no force or work to move it, so the question would be for naught.
The stone being on the planet would have weight due to gravity. We will assume that the planet reacts with sufficient normal force.
The weight of an object (W) equals the mass (m) times the gravitational acceleration (g) in the downward direction. Hence, W = mg.
To lift the stone, God would have to exert an upward force equal in magnitude to the downward force of weight, so that the net force is zero.
Can God create a stone of such mass that he cannot exert an upward force equal in magnitude to that of the weight?
This is the same question as:
Can God create an object so massive that He cannot overcome the gravitational pull exerted by its immense mass?
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And its also the same question in simplified terms:
Can God make a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it?
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We are assuming that God obeys the laws of physics, and for all we know he could not, so the question would be moot.
Once again, your query shows the problems and limitations inherent in trying to apply simple deductive logic to a definitionally abstract concept as "God".
Click to expand...
I completely agree that this question is flawed, but I think many people don't think about it and write it off as being something an idoit would say.
Stephen Hawking asks this question in A Brief History of Time, and he comes to the conclusion that to answer it we would have to know the essence of God, and therefore we would know the essence of everything.
 
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asmodeus256,
if you liked Brief History of Time, read the follow-up, Universe in a Nutshell...it's gotta lot of interesting little ideas to ponder...like "are we just holograms of another universe with more dimensions?"
 
Okay, as an omnipotent being, God could "be" whatever he/she wants to be... even the stone in question. If God chooses to be a being with physical constraints, say manifesting him/herself in me, then he/she would most likely be unable to lift a stone of certain "weight" if you will. If God chooses to be a being with no physical constraints, then lifting the stone would be a matter of will, if "lifting" applies since that would imply God is subject to the laws of physics...
 
What happens when an irresistable cannonball hits an immovable post?
Click to expand...
infinite heat (which melts the cannonball and the post :) ).
 
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What is so special about this thread?

Just another thread where people argue and disagree about the nature of God.
 
^^^I guess you didn't read the thread that tells you all about this forum.

It was special enough to someone (actually a number of people if I recall correctly) for it to be nominated. There doesn't have to be a reason for it.
 
The mistake is applying the terms "can" and "cannot" to God. IF God is omnipotent, then God will do what God wants. It is a matter of will. God will make a rock, and if he chooses He/She will lift it.

If you think outside of will, and in terms of can and cannot, you will find yourself going in circles. Transcend duality.

Of course i could be wrong.
 
I think if god made a rock so heavy he could not lift it it would msot likely be pretty heavy, so it would indefinately fall through space, adventually gaining such speed it would travel faster than the universe was expanding, and something crazy would happen.

But ultimately if god existed he could make anything, so he could just make a tiny rock that he couldnt not lift for the hell of it. This is sorta dumb paradox though.
 
If god can do anything than can god create a being more powerful than god?
God cannot create a rock that he/she/it cannot life. Just because you say "cannot" doesn't make (lets just say him cuz its easier) him not omnipotent.
By definition nothing can be more powerful than god therefore god cannot create a being more powerful than god.
Just as there cannot be a rock that god cannot lift. God cannot create a rock that he cannot lift.
If your definition of the word god includes the word omnipotent then by the definition of the words god, can, and cannot your query is undefined.
The definition of god that you assume to think everybody agrees upon is a definition that contradicts itself therefore your question cannot truely be answered.
 
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