Getting off of opiates, with no withdrawals, and no Suboxone or methadone - using ONLY Vitamin C - NOT A JOKE! READ THIS!

[helpingout]

First, this is the wrong forum to post this in.
Second, walls of Cut & Paste as opposed to a hyper-linked source are horrible form.

Now, as for the issue, it is a compendium of one-offers as opposed to a singular study. Tossing in one-off animal studies, some with animals that naturally produce AA, some that do not, at best points to an area vulnerable to peer reviewed study. It does NOT mean that folks should engage in self-experimentation, even with a substance sans ceiling.

Lastly, on your boyfriend, if he has a degree he should know very well that you cannot prove a negative.

I much preferred the walls of copy and paste to being linked to a different site and having to trawl for information

 

[helpingout]

To all the naysayers on the post, your assumptions about the erroneous or fallacious nature of the research, although legitimate, would require an actual data set to provide evidence against the claims, no?

The articles make some very simple claims;

1 vitamin c In large doses is capable of occupying opiate receptors

2 vitamin c is not an endogenously produced compound and drug users (70% of those in treatment) came in with vitamin deficiencies I. A, C, and E.

3 vitamin c is largely safe at high doses, expensive piss isn’t really a bad problem, and there exists a slim possibility that this may be helpful to those in withdrawal, for whom the options are essentially maintenance therapy or a high relapse rate.

Personally, as I go through my kick, I don’t mind taking high vit c doses as they either make my pee expensive, have no health complications besides GI upset, or potentially have a miniscule chance to help with withdrawal symptoms.

I’m performing the experiment on myself because there’s literally no consequence to it besides expensive pee or potential benefit.

Dope sick people are desperate. Placebos are 50% effective. If this is, at best, a placebo, of no significant harm, what is the point of saying, largely with no studies which counteract the claims, that the findings are dubious, erroneous, or false?

 

[helpingout]

I tried it. It helped a lot but liposomal or sa is crucial because I gave myself legitimately terrible bm’s. Don’t use what you have if trying this. Go the distance and get the right one. That said day 9 let’s go!!!

 

[Rezimodnar]

Just my 2 ¢:



One of my friends has a pretty large oxy habit, always 200-400mg a day for several years. He (semi-)successfully uses sodium ascorbate when he runs out. According to him following certain dosage guidelines it takes away most of the symptoms except rls, anxiety, insomnia. But the flu like symptoms and achy feeling is greatly diminished/non existent.



I don’t have any withdrawal related experience by myself but at least for the flu and common colds sodium ascorbate or lipo vit c IME has become a miracle cure. My first couple positive trials might have been pure coincidence but over the years I was able to knock out constantly 9/10 illnesses. Of course timing and dosage is essential. Meanwhile I know a lot of relatives, friends, coworkers using sodium ascorbate with success.



One of my mates had cancer (don’t remember what type) several years ago. Although he is not susceptible to alternative treatments his aunt, a naturopath, insisted on giving him high dose vitamin c IV treatments besides conventional therapy. After he got over the disease his oncologist mentioned a noticeable fast improvement and remission of such a case. He further told him that vit c was studied as an addon to assist chemo, radiation, etc. and while it could have positive impact it’s use was never pursued.



I know these are anecdotal findings but vitamin c clearly deserves more serious investigation than some magic spooky healing crystals (sold for worth a month’s wages) or metal junk antennas combating ominous chemtrails. Vitamin c and related redox medicine is a fascinating topic.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I just want to stress something. I believe that Vitamin C like any valuable nutrient can have a positive impact on something like drug withdrawal. I just don't believe that it's benefit is truly as great as being a wonder-drug. My first post in this thread was my not wanting to give unrealistic expectations to people. I'm sure there is some positive benefit to this practice. I do not know if any of that goes above and beyond Vitamin C just being a necessary part of or diets though

 

[Antares]

To all the naysayers on the post, your assumptions about the erroneous or fallacious nature of the research, although legitimate, would require an actual data set to provide evidence against the claims, no?

The articles make some very simple claims;

1 vitamin c In large doses is capable of occupying opiate receptors

2 vitamin c is not an endogenously produced compound and drug users (70% of those in treatment) came in with vitamin deficiencies I. A, C, and E.

3 vitamin c is largely safe at high doses, expensive piss isn’t really a bad problem, and there exists a slim possibility that this may be helpful to those in withdrawal, for whom the options are essentially maintenance therapy or a high relapse rate.

Personally, as I go through my kick, I don’t mind taking high vit c doses as they either make my pee expensive, have no health complications besides GI upset, or potentially have a miniscule chance to help with withdrawal symptoms.

I’m performing the experiment on myself because there’s literally no consequence to it besides expensive pee or potential benefit.

Dope sick people are desperate. Placebos are 50% effective. If this is, at best, a placebo, of no significant harm, what is the point of saying, largely with no studies which counteract the claims, that the findings are dubious, erroneous, or false?

I like the idea of posting the info but tempering expectations. If you told me on one of the worst days of my life that I would feel 100% better if I just downed a bottle of some vitamin, I would probably go ahead and jump off a bridge when it doesn't help. Not everyone is like this, but I think a desperate person is far more likely to be.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

PS as to megadosing vitamins, those who advocate the practice appear to lack a basic understanding of how the human metabolism works. There is this general idea that if X is known to be good for you, then lots more of X must be even better. This is erroneous. There is a maximum threshold for the amount of any vitamin the body can usefully metabolise over a 24 hr period. With vitamin C that's around 2000 mg which is already FAR in excess of the required daily average. Go beyond that and the excess is simply secreted in the urine. In other words you're not doing your body any favours but producing a lot of very expensive piss.

PS thankfully the worst too much vitamin C will do to you is to cause gastric upset ; but with large doses of many other vitamins there is significant toxicity.

Isn't megadosing Thiamine standard operating procedure for alkies?

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Isn't megadosing Thiamine standard operating procedure for alkies?

I have not actually heard of that. If that's a thing then it would be because alcoholics are notoriously deficient in this vitamin. But it still makes no sense. Give the MAXIMUM dose if your patient is deficient, sure. But anything more will just get peed out. The body does not have an unlimited capacity for vitamin absorption so I don't understand the reasoning behind megadosing.

 

[Direwolf131]

I just want to stress something. I believe that Vitamin C like any valuable nutrient can have a positive impact on something like drug withdrawal. I just don't believe that it's benefit is truly as great as being a wonder-drug. My first post in this thread was my not wanting to give unrealistic expectations to people. I'm sure there is some positive benefit to this practice. I do not know if any of that goes above and beyond Vitamin C just being a necessary part of or diets though

I worked for ten years as a certified psychiatric technician, which is like a medical asst except you have a degree in behavioral psychology, I participated in numerous opiate detoxes, far more than I could recount, all vitamins are of value to such a patient, that said in ten years of working both the open and the locked wards, never was this protocol followed, and if it worked as claimed, we would have heard of it doing so! Every psychiatrist I worked with was wide open to new treatments and therapies, alas this high octane V-C protocol was not among them. Don't let that stop you from pursuing such with your doctor, its well worth the conversation time.

 

[Keif' Richards]

True. I mean, I don't want to be responsible for steering a likely deficient population away from their needed vitamins. Vitamin C is one of the relatively harmless vitamins, in that excess can be removed through the urine.

My life experience has taught me that anything can be harmful to life in the right quantity. I imagine there is a point at which the body will have issues.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

I worked for ten years as a certified psychiatric technician, which is like a medical asst except you have a degree in behavioral psychology, I participated in numerous opiate detoxes, far more than I could recount, all vitamins are of value to such a patient, that said in ten years of working both the open and the locked wards, never was this protocol followed, and if it worked as claimed, we would have heard of it doing so! Every psychiatrist I worked with was wide open to new treatments and therapies, alas this high octane V-C protocol was not among them. Don't let that stop you from pursuing such with your doctor, its well worth the conversation time.

I think the reasoning for thiamine megadosing is that alcoholics are very bad at absorbing thianine, so they take something like 1000x the daily recommended dose in the hope that they will actually absorb the required amount

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

True. I mean, I don't want to be responsible for steering a likely deficient population away from their needed vitamins. Vitamin C is one of the relatively harmless vitamins, in that excess can be removed through the urine.

My life experience has taught me that anything can be harmful to life in the right quantity. I imagine there is a point at which the body will have issues.

"It's the dose that makes the poison" really is an accurate statement. What we generally call 'toxins' are merely things that are toxic at very low doses. But water drunk in excess will kill you, and so will pure oxygen if you breathe it for a couple hours.

 

[tibberous]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Know why it doesn't work? Because vitamin C doesn't bind to opiate receptors. If it worked for the op, it's probably because they are retarded and their "dealer" just gives them fake drugs anyway. Maybe the placebo effect would help a little, but this sounds like it was came up with by some right wing boomer who thinks vitamins and clean living fixes everything, including serious conditions like opiate withdrawl.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Know why it doesn't work? Because vitamin C doesn't bind to opiate receptors. If it worked for the op, it's probably because they are retarded and their "dealer" just gives them fake drugs anyway. Maybe the placebo effect would help a little, but this sounds like it was came up with by some right wing boomer who thinks vitamins and clean living fixes everything, including serious conditions like opiate withdrawl.

Spot on. What I pointed out in a previous post on this thread is that *serious* vit C deficiency can exacerbate WD symptoms, so in those cases giving vit C would obviously improve them.
No medical evidence on some magical overall positive effect of ingesting more than your body can actually process in a given time frame.

 

[helpingout]

"In a 2000 study by Evangelou et al conducted in humans with heroin addiction, oral supplementation with vitamin C and vitamin E ameliorated withdrawal symptoms in both inpatients (30 males) and outpatients (10 males).24 Those in the experimental group were administered oral vitamin C (300 mg/kg) and vitamin E (5 mg/kg) daily for a minimum of 4 weeks, while those in the control group received diazepam and an analgesic daily during the same time period. Fifty seven percent of the patients in the vitamin C and E group experienced significant reductions in withdrawal symptoms, whereas only 7% of the control group could say the same." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7572147/

 

[Skorpio]

I am so glad you have enough education and knowledge to make you so secure in your doubt of a two time Nobel prize winner. Has it occurred to you there may be something to his claims, considering that in other countries other than the United States, there are cancer clinics that use megadoses of vitamin C?

Linus Pauling had a deeply incomplete view of the role of oxidative stress in biology. He was a brilliant scientist, but the body of knowledge he drew upon was not what it is now.

Isaac Newton for example did some good science. He also spent quite a bit of his career trying to perform alchemy. Just because somebody makes great discoveries, doesn’t mean that they are infallible.

As for vitamin C treating opioid withdrawal, if it worked it would be widespread. There is quite a bit of motivation to avoid opioid withdrawal (both at the level of users trying to feel better, and scientists trying to help people and get that sweet NIDA funding). The fact that this paper from an alternative medicine journal published this and it hasn’t been followed up with any mechanistic study indicates that the studies referenced were dead ends.

And claims that vitamin C binds opioid receptors? Puh-lease, pull the other one, there are bells on it. If this were the case, it would be a paradigm changing discovery as ascorbate follows none of the “morphine rules” of chemical structure which dictate mu opioid binding. Furthermore, if vitamin C was an opioid at any appreciable level, people would be abusing it (even without knowing how it works).

Look at tianeptine. For years it was thought to be a selective serotonin reuptake enhancer (a bogus mechanism if I’ve ever heard one). Junkies in Russia knew that banging it got them high, and it was quite popular there. Only in the early 2010s did scientists put together that it is an atypical opioid, and nail down its mechanism. If vitamin C worked, it would be used frequently.

 

[Skorpio]

"In a 2000 study by Evangelou et al conducted in humans with heroin addiction, oral supplementation with vitamin C and vitamin E ameliorated withdrawal symptoms in both inpatients (30 males) and outpatients (10 males).24 Those in the experimental group were administered oral vitamin C (300 mg/kg) and vitamin E (5 mg/kg) daily for a minimum of 4 weeks, while those in the control group received diazepam and an analgesic daily during the same time period. Fifty seven percent of the patients in the vitamin C and E group experienced significant reductions in withdrawal symptoms, whereas only 7% of the control group could say the same." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7572147/

This is the same author as the first study, and it’s in the same integrative medicine journal (integrative medicine is the intelligent design to the creationism of alternative medicine). The citations in the review are a mix of anecdotal work, real studies that are misrepresented (they extrapolate vitamin C effects in exercise for example).

Are there any sources in real scientific journals by other groups? Convincing science isn’t simply a deluge of references; the best science has the minimal amount of experiments that clearly show an effect. I tend to get more incredulous when I see a heap of weak studies bandied about as conclusive when a single well designed experiment that shows a powerful effect is enough to convince me.