Opioids Friend takes 160mg Opana when pulled over, sent to ER , anyone else ever do this?

[ReversiblePulpitis]

He's actually a friend of a friend, met him a few times, but acquaintance wouldn't fit into the title, lol. I heard the story from my friend, so it is second hand.

I'm scripted 15mg Opana ER 3x/day, so I had a hard time wrapping my head around what this IDIOT actually did (knowing how powerful this drug is).

He had bought 8x 20mg Opana ER off the street early one morning this week, Monday to be exact.

He's got a rap sheet with a handful of misdemeanors (from what I understand), mostly alcohol/drug related. So, when he was being pulled over for a "routine" traffic stop, I guess he knew that a search was to come. Me personally, have never been searched, so this notion is foreign to me. He was headed home from this run. He swallowed all 160mg. The cop apparently saw him swallow something, and as a result took his sweet time searching his car. What does a person have to do in order to be searched during a traffic related stop? Was it his rap sheet? He doesn't smoke weed, so wouldn't have been any sort of smell.

THe cop supposedly tried patting him on the neck and back to get him to vomit up what he thought he had swallowed (he claimed he hadnt swallowed a thing obviously). Is this legal, normal!?

45 minutes into the search (ish), the guy "blacked out". The cop called the ambulance, kid ends up in detox for 3-ish days. Is this standard practice? I guess the detox center was out of beds, so he was sent to some sort of psych establishment. My friend called it the "insane asylum", I doubt that's correct term?
When he arrived, they dosed him Naloxone/Naltrexone, this was the first thing he remembers up to blacking out. Terrible pain ensues, finishes out his time in withdrawal. For now, that's all I know about this story.

IMO, he's lucky he didn't suffer far worse consequences. Or death. I mean, he is an active opiate addict, maybe avgs 120+mg/day of oxycodone?

Has anyone else had to do this upon being pulled over? Were you even searched?

I still shake my head in disbelief at this story. I couldn't stop saying how eff'ed up that was to my friend upon telling me the story. Crazy, crazy, crazy.
Maybe orally it isn't the most euphoric out there, but its still very potent CNS depressant. Very.

Anyway.

Did he do the "right" thing? He left detox with no charges. He was already on "probation" with girlfriend for his drug use. His sister had just returned from the exact same center for the exact same thing. Parents must be proud. Sorry, had to say it.

 

[Albion]

People have died from doing this. Drug dealers swallowing heroin, cocaine, whatever, in order to hide evidence or smuggle stuff through customs. It's short-termism in the extreme. No amount of legal aggravation is worth a life-threatening overdose (except perhaps being sentenced to death, but that's a whole other can of worms...).

Did he do the right thing? I don't think there is a 'right' thing to do in a situation like that. The guy fell victim to the wider problem of drug prohibition and criminalisation, in my opinion. Just another side-effect of a system that needs fixing. At least they survived...

 

[OpanRanger30]

Although I imagine his priors were the true reason the cop would act suspicious towards your friend, the fact that he actually saw him swallow something certainly would give him probable cause to search the vehicle. it's really up to their discretion; if they find something their probable cause if justifed, if they don't then they just write you a speeding ticket or whatever.

obviously he did swallow something if he passed out 45 minutes later, the fact that the cop waylaid and searched him for 45 minutes seems a bit excessive to me but if the police officer firmly held that he saw him swallow something he probably could have had him taken to the hospital anyways... it's really tricky legal territory. if he has no charges i guess it's ok- what happened to his car? that's just a rough story all around though. im sure he was psyched as fuck about to bust down his pans... poor guy

 

[Missykins]

Of course the police officer is going to try to get him to spit out what your friend (or whatever he is) after being observed swallowing a substance. If the police see someone swallow a handful of something as they pull that person over they are going to conduct a search. I would think that would be enough for probable cause at that point.

He was placed on involuntary psych confinement, it sounds like to me. It could have been perceived as a suicide attempt.

Charges may yet come--he's not out of the woods yet. Plenty of people OD and then face felony drug charges.

 

[Thomas29]

My friend has had to do this one to many times lol. But fortunately he has only suffered being extremely high and in need of more drugs after swallowing his stash definitely a good way to avoid drug charges.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Anyone can be searched at a "routine traffic stop" (or most other places). The cops can search without any real valid reason - they can just make one up, like that the person looked suspicious, or resembled a known criminal etc etc. I'm assuming this was in the US? In some countries, for example Canada, if the cops illegally search you you have no recourse and any evidence they find is still admissible. But even in the states they can just claim they had a reason to search the person. Of course it's best not to speed or do anything that would warrant them pulling you over, and to not look or act suspicious in any manner, and it's less likely to happen to people who have no criminal record and look mainstream in appearance, etc.

But did he do the "right" thing? I agree with JSPete's assessment. It's not worth risking your life over, the guy was just lucky he didn't die and that the cops sent him to the hospital instead of jail. He is also lucky he didn't end up with any charges. It could have easily ended a different way. It's really sad that our system and the "war on drugs" is so f*cked up that people are put into these situations in the first place, *sigh* :-(

 

[Starshowers]

People have died from doing this. Drug dealers swallowing heroin, cocaine, whatever, in order to hide evidence or smuggle stuff through customs. It's short-termism in the extreme. No amount of legal aggravation is worth a life-threatening overdose (except perhaps being sentenced to death, but that's a whole other can of worms...).

I disagree and in my opinion a death sentence is preferable to 5+ years in prison. I would take painless death (lethal injection?) over long-term prison time any day. As long as death is painless I don't see how it's a big deal - it's not like you're gonna know you died, once it's happened.

 

[MikeRWK]

Anyone can be searched at a "routine traffic stop" (or most other places). The cops can search without any real valid reason - they can just make one up, like that the person looked suspicious, or resembled a known criminal etc etc. I'm assuming this was in the US? In some countries, for example Canada, if the cops illegally search you you have no recourse and any evidence they find is still admissible. But even in the states they can just claim they had a reason to search the person. Of course it's best not to speed or do anything that would warrant them pulling you over, and to not look or act suspicious in any manner, and it's less likely to happen to people who have no criminal record and look mainstream in appearance, etc.

But did he do the "right" thing? I agree with JSPete's assessment. It's not worth risking your life over, the guy was just lucky he didn't die and that the cops sent him to the hospital instead of jail. He is also lucky he didn't end up with any charges. It could have easily ended a different way. It's really sad that our system and the "war on drugs" is so f*cked up that people are put into these situations in the first place, *sigh* :-(

Where did you hear this about canada? Any cop thats ever pulled me over always asked to search the car and said i have the right to say no.Probable cause is a different story.

 

[_Synapse]

i just would not be able to decide every time i were to go out and pick up a lethal dosage of drugs that im just gonna risk death in a seconds notice... its something that happens so fast i doubt that i would really take that many, maybe most of them or something different and trying to hide a couple, idk, but not kill myself over something i chose to get myself into like that... especially getting pulled over something stupid like speeding, no way, thats just something you cant and should have time to consider before you just eat that many drugs knowing its an OD automatic pretty much... otherwise you are right about it being the best way.... still though. i have more thought to consider before killing myself for something that may or may not happen lol.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Where did you hear this about canada? Any cop thats ever pulled me over always asked to search the car and said i have the right to say no.Probable cause is a different story.

I read a newspaper article recently about a particular case and I also heard this from a lawyer. I can try to find some sources if you like. Basically if they search you without probable cause they can always claim they did have probable cause, and even if it's found that they didn't then you can file a complaint but it doesn't make the evidence inadmissible in court or anything. You have a right to say no to a search, but that right doesn't get you much. It doesn't mean they will listen to you, and it doesn't mean you have any useful recourse if they search you without cause. The cop may get a minor slap on the wrist if you file a complaint and a court finds that they didn't have just cause and you said no to being searched, but that doesn't really do you any good if you're in prison.

In the US there is the "exclusionary rule" where evidence collected illegally cannot be admitted in a court of law, but there is actually a growing number of exceptions to that rule. Plus it's very easy for the police to claim that they had a valid reason for a search (even when they didn't in reality). In Canada there have been some cases where evidence was excluded because of an illegal search, but it is rare compared to the number of cases where evidence is included despite evidence of an improper/illegal search.

Most cops in my experience will just get even more suspicious if you don't consent to a search. They can then claim you were behaving in a suspicious manner and that is why they searched you.

 

[skepticide]

How did he even OD? Yes.. that's a lot of OM. But if he took them orally, they're time released, and with it's 10% bio availability he's only going to get 16mg total in his blood.. ..over the course of 12 hours. If he's a regular user taking 120mg of oxy/day, I don't see how 16mg would OD him. It might give him a buzz, but depending on his length of habit, it's a stretch that it would even nod him out.

Or is there something I'm missing here..? (seems even more unlikely he'd black out within 45 minutes.)

 

[Swimmingdancer]

How did he even OD? Yes.. that's a lot of OM. But if he took them orally, they're time released, and with it's 10% bio availability he's only going to get 16mg total in his blood.. ..over the course of 12 hours. If he's a regular user taking 120mg of oxy/day, I don't see how 16mg would OD him. It might give him a buzz, but depending on his length of habit, it's a stretch that it would even nod him out.

Or is there something I'm missing here..? (seems even more unlikely he'd black out within 45 minutes.)

Opana is a lot stronger than oxys. And it was 160mg, not 16mg. A lot of people have died from Opana overdose, even with much smaller quantities, and even from the ER formulation. It's also possible, since it was a fourth-hand story, that the pills he took were regular Opana, not ER, or that he chewed them to get them down faster, which would definitely come on more quickly and intensely. Or that it was actually more than 45 min before he passed out.

Here is a thread with people all talking about friends and family that died from Opana:
http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/655100142/m/21819967001

 

[Opanaking]

I dont understand what the question is here in regards to harm reduction.

Your friend should maybe consider obeying the traffic laws when hes holding shit like that on him. Then maybe he should of had the drugs stashed in his ass. I mean you would at least think your friend would have a stash spot in his car if he was so concerned about getting in trouble. To me it sounds like your friend is reckless and it was bound to happen to him sooner or later.

16mg's of opana is plenty to overdose somone. 160mg's 10%ba=16

5mg's in the body is close to 90mg's of oxy. So even though the oxy M would be slowly absorbed that's still like 3x as much as your friends used to. Maybe equivalent to 270mg's of oc.

Bottom line. Your friend was a dumb ass in many ways.

 

[skepticide]

Opana is a lot stronger than oxys. And it was 160mg, not 16mg. A lot of people have died from Opana overdose, even with much smaller quantities, and even from the ER formulation. It's also possible, since it was a fourth-hand story, that the pills he took were regular Opana, not ER, or that he chewed them to get them down faster, which would definitely come on more quickly and intensely. Or that it was actually more than 45 min before he passed out.

Here is a thread with people all talking about friends and family that died from Opana:
http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/655100142/m/21819967001

Um, yes, I'm aware Opana is a lot stronger than Oxy. I've taken it once or twice, ya know. *eyeroll* Now, if you'll actually read my post, you'll see that I said he's only going to get 16mg in his blood from a 160mg dose because it's only 10% bio available orally. You do know what that means don't you?

And NO they were no "regular Opana" - they don't make a 20mg Opana IR. Only 5s and 10s. Please actually read my post/and the opening post next time.

I dont understand what the question is here in regards to harm reduction.

Your friend should maybe consider obeying the traffic laws when hes holding shit like that on him. Then maybe he should of had the drugs stashed in his ass. I mean you would at least think your friend would have a stash spot in his car if he was so concerned about getting in trouble. To me it sounds like your friend is reckless and it was bound to happen to him sooner or later.

16mg's of opana is plenty to overdose somone. 160mg's 10%ba=16

5mg's in the body is close to 90mg's of oxy. So even though the oxy M would be slowly absorbed that's still like 3x as much as your friends used to. Maybe equivalent to 270mg's of oc.

Bottom line. Your friend was a dumb ass in many ways.

16mg is not enough to OD someone that has a regular addiction of 120mg oxy a day. I topped out around there and have snorted similar amounts and was perfectly fine (yes, taking into account bioavailability and ROA) Please keep in mind they're ER pills. He's never going to get 16mg in his blood at any one time. Maybe 10mg.

Either he's leaving something out of the story (i.e. kid was already loaded on benzos/other depressants) or the kid had already snorted some, was drinking (causes dose dumping) etc.

5mg in body is no where near 90mg oxy. (Sure wish it were, would be a LOT cheaper to catch a buzz) I'd say 8mg (20mg snorted, assuming 40% BA) is near 80-90mg oxy. Many people disagree with even that, and say that 20mg snorted is more equal to 60mg oxy.

He got the equivalent of 180mg oxy.... over the course of 12 hours. I have no idea how he "blacks out" in 45 minutes. What's his dose at that point, 4mg in his blood? 5mg?

-----

Keep in mind that by using 120mg (80-100mg dependong on ROA) of oxyco per day, he's already consuming some 12mg (8-10mg again depending) of oxym per day, since around 10% is converted by your liver. It's not like his body is completely naive to the substance.

 

[ReversiblePulpitis]

It was a second hand story to me. The friend that told me is very close to this guy. He told me this story on Thursday, hours after he spoke to him as soon as he left the detox place.
Opanaking, you kinda have a shitty attitude. I really wanted to just get this story out here for harm reduction sake, period. I threw in the stupid questions so it would be valid for OD b/c I wanted this crowd to read it and spur discussion about how stupid this was. And yeah, he was a retard for doing this, I said so in the first place, thanks.
Skepticide: I'm not going to get in the middle of that particular discussion on a quantitative level when I'm not qualified to do so, and I've taken my fair share of Pharmacology in Professional school. The point was, Opana is a very potent CNS depressant. I'm not sure your way of dissecting those particular #s can accurately quantify the degree of CNS depression.
In my past experience with Opana ER legit Rx, it has always dose dumed on me, expressing profound analgesia and earlier in my use, profound euphoria within the first hour.

 

[Opanaking]

5mg's IVD =90mg's of oxy. So I figured 10mg's in his body is 180mg-200mg of oxy. So if he was only taking 90-120mg's of oxy a day. It's still possible he could of had a really strong nod. His body might react different to oxymorphone. You could go from taking no oxy to 90-120mg's a day pretty quick, so it's not like it's that high.

If he was on benzo's though without a doubt that dose would of killed him. He probably just started getting a really strong nod. Who knows the it's not like the OP was there. So there's nothing we can really do but speculate.

How would getting this story out there help anyone? Are you saying to remind people not to swallow all there drugs at once? If anything I was trying to help by saying he should of been prepared and responsible. If he was he wouldn't of had to do something so crazy.

 

[andghosts]

Yeah, when packing and in a vehicle, we're told to carry the package between the teeth with an open bottle of water between the knees should we see those dreaded red and blue lights in the rear-view. Don't be an idiot and hold the pills or product in your mouth - wrap that shit in plastic and tie it in a condom, this way if you do get hauled in, you still have your goods to enjoy once re-collected (yes, I mean by either regurgitation or other means necessary), undamaged and without the trouble of an overdose.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Um, yes, I'm aware Opana is a lot stronger than Oxy. I've taken it once or twice, ya know. *eyeroll* Now, if you'll actually read my post, you'll see that I said he's only going to get 16mg in his blood from a 160mg dose because it's only 10% bio available orally. You do know what that means don't you?

No need to get so defensive and rude. Yes I did somehow miss the part where you explained you were referring to the bioavailability and not the actual dosage. I apologize for my HUGE mistake.

Although you didn't include the bioavailability of oxy for comparison (apparently around 85% or less).

16mg is not enough to OD someone that has a regular addiction of 120mg oxy a day. I topped out around there and have snorted similar amounts and was perfectly fine (yes, taking into account bioavailability and ROA) Please keep in mind they're ER pills. He's never going to get 16mg in his blood at any one time. Maybe 10mg.

Either he's leaving something out of the story (i.e. kid was already loaded on benzos/other depressants) or the kid had already snorted some, was drinking (causes dose dumping) etc.

Of course mitigating circumstances are possible, which was part of the point in my post. He could have already taken Opana or oxys, or other drugs, or been drinking, or whatever. The OP never said that the 160mg Opana he gulped down in a panic were the only drugs he had taken that day. Or, like I said, it's also possible that he could have chewed the Opana to get them down faster or something like that. Who knows.

The bioavailability percentages are only a rough estimate and it's well-known that they vary greatly from person to person. There are also many other factors such as metabolism, physiology, etc that can greatly affect how quickly a drug takes effect and the strength and duration of its effects from person to person. Or did you think that every drug affects every person exactly the same?

With strong opiates it's better to be on the safe side, and as I said, there have been many reported Opana ODs, even in opioid-tolerant people, so it isn't outrageous to believe the OP's story (even assuming he wasn't on any other drugs).

How would getting this story out there help anyone? Are you saying to remind people not to swallow all there drugs at once? If anything I was trying to help by saying he should of been prepared and responsible. If he was he wouldn't of had to do something so crazy.

Perhaps it could be helpful in that it reminds people how dangerous doing that is and people might suggest some alternatives to what the guy in the story did. The OP also asked if others had been in a similar situation and what they did. It's also interesting to see whether people think that swallowing one's drugs when you fear you're about to get searched is worth it or not. Some people seem to think it is a harm-reduction strategy in a way, since they'd rather potentially OD and even risk death than go to jail. Personally I don't agree with that logic however. And it also brought up how often cops search people, whether you have to submit, etc. So I don't think it was a totally un-helpful post.

But I also don't think Opanaking's response was that bad, maybe just a tad sarcastic and wanting to provide contrast to the people who think swallowing one's stash is a good idea? ;-)

 

[spacejunk]

I dont understand what the question is here in regards to harm reduction.

Your friend should maybe consider obeying the traffic laws when hes holding shit like that on him. Then maybe he should of had the drugs stashed in his ass. I mean you would at least think your friend would have a stash spot in his car if he was so concerned about getting in trouble. To me it sounds like your friend is reckless and it was bound to happen to him sooner or later.

this.
there is absolutely no harm reduction value in encouraging people to eat their stash if they come across law enforcement and potential search.
if you are going to be carrying regularly, and in a position to be searched (especially if driving a vehicle) then the only sane advice is to advocate a better hiding spot. one of those magnetic stash boxes that can go up under the dash, or something of that nature.
risking OD is no way to safely avoid legal persecution. i know most of us are playing cat-and-mouse with authorities in one way or another, but you have to be smart about it if you know you are putting yourself in this position. there are many safe ways to stash shit.

your friend might've been put in an even worse position if the cops had let him drive off after a 5-10 minute search of his vehicle.
nodding behind the wheel is obviously really dangerous, as is taking a massive dose of opiates to begin with.
don't put yourself in this position to begin with!

 

[Hobble]

Fatty foods can make a big difference with Opana too. If he had just eaten fast food it could bump up the bioavailability significantly and because Opana is so strong small increases in bioavailability can mean big increases in dosage.