Forget your PHs guys

[theartofwar]

seriously - get some SARMs S4 , I've ran almost every AAS - used almost all peptides out there. SARMs S4 is LEGAl , it's MUCH safer , and offers MUCH better results.

Tired of seeing people ruin their livers ... fuck.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

test is best

 

[maakshif]

SARMS are not a replacement for steroids and are better suited in PCT

 

[auhsoJ]

This topic provoked me to read up on this. Ended up reading a previous topic you made.

For a newbie - is this worth on it's own?

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

^ no

 

[theartofwar]

^ no

I have extensive use of it , and I have Onasteride on the way - I know the RC company.

In short - SARMs S4 on it's own is the EXACT way to run it - 50mcg ,split it 25am/25pm - strength gain was similar to var , vast endurance - your diet will dictate the rest , it provides quality gains - zero bloat - acne was a problem for me but not terrible (every AAS I run , nothin comes close to the way I broke out on my back w/SARMs S4).

It is best used by itself - using it during PCT is excellent ! However, you are still working with shut down , you won't see the same results.

I've bridged with it - and I've ran prop w/it - honestly I'm not sure after the research if it doesn't hinder binding while running sauce , so I would stick to using it SOLO , then pct / bridging.

But if you think any PH out there is better than SARMs you are on crack or your body simply found its compound of choice.

Test is best , yea agreed - but I see so many awful threads about PH's - fuck PHs this is for those who want to stay in the legal - and hopefully save their livers for a worthwhile REAL steroid.

 

[maakshif]

Test is best , yea agreed - but I see so many awful threads about PH's - fuck PHs this is for those who want to stay in the legal - and hopefully save their livers for a worthwhile REAL steroid.

can't argue with that...prohormones are garbage

 

[theartofwar]

never like arguing brother ! I am all about learning and growing - I guinea pigged original SARMs S4 - and logged it before the RC company put it out. I will do the same w/onasteride !

If anything I say is faulty - please point out why and explain, I know enough and I'm not stubborn, simply here to help out and check out what people are running.

My 2cc's !! Peace brother.

 

[interleukin]

never like arguing brother ! I am all about learning and growing - I guinea pigged original SARMs S4 - and logged it before the RC company put it out. I will do the same w/onasteride !

If anything I say is faulty - please point out why and explain, I know enough and I'm not stubborn, simply here to help out and check out what people are running.

My 2cc's !! Peace brother.

I don't think you should be pimping S4 as a safer, more effective alternative to steroids. I have never used it though and have a bottle of Ostarine in front of me right now which I also won't use until definitive results appear.
There is a reason S4 was stopped in the clinical trials phase after GTx spent so much money on developing it. There are major toxicity concerns with its metabolite M1 (http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/34/2/254.full.pdf) which binds receptors in ocular and heart tissue. Also from what I've read S4 reduces serum LH at higher doses which completely defeats the purpose of using it over a mild oral steroid.
I don't know about you but I prefer the risk of cholestatic liver damage over the possibility of permanent damage to my vision. I think RC's like this are worse (for inexperienced users) than even shit like mephedrone or M1T as at least with them you know the ball park of possible sides because they are structurally very similar to well known drugs. These SARMs work on novel pathways opening up the possibility of novel side effects.
I'm not trying to say that S4 didn't work out well for you but there are definitely unknown risks when you take it. I also find it very hard to believe that your results with S4 were better than with the "prohormones" M1T or superdrol.

 

[theartofwar]

I don't think you should be pimping S4 as a safer, more effective alternative to steroids. I have never used it though and have a bottle of Ostarine in front of me right now which I also won't use until definitive results appear.
There is a reason S4 was stopped in the clinical trials phase after GTx spent so much money on developing it. There are major toxicity concerns with its metabolite M1 (http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/34/2/254.full.pdf) which binds receptors in ocular and heart tissue. Also from what I've read S4 reduces serum LH at higher doses which completely defeats the purpose of using it over a mild oral steroid.
I don't know about you but I prefer the risk of cholestatic liver damage over the possibility of permanent damage to my vision. I think RC's like this are worse (for inexperienced users) than even shit like mephedrone or M1T as at least with them you know the ball park of possible sides because they are structurally very similar to well known drugs. These SARMs work on novel pathways opening up the possibility of novel side effects.
I'm not trying to say that S4 didn't work out well for you but there are definitely unknown risks when you take it. I also find it very hard to believe that your results with S4 were better than with the "prohormones" M1T or superdrol.

No doubt brother - let me totally frank - in my log I'm sure i mentioned the night vision - from dusk till dawn I was one of the FEW (out of 100) who had it affect them. It went away after 3 days of stopping use. Also - mephedrone ? That is a rec drug, m1t is not a prohormone it is an actual steroid (1 testosterone) - one is a miserable party drug , the other was proven to be more liver toxic than anadrol - with results that can be described best as a poor mans anavar in my opinion.

Now I can't say in a year that perm eye damage is not a possibility, I do run bilberry with it now - however, I won't lie i barely notice it anymore. And my vision is 20/20 and eyes were checked up last month (do bloodworks at least 2x a year and eye check once).

I do agree but in the clinical trial i believe i was 4th , 3 others complained of night vision problems. As stated out of 100.

 

[maakshif]

No doubt brother - let me totally frank - in my log I'm sure i mentioned the night vision - from dusk till dawn I was one of the FEW (out of 100) who had it affect them. It went away after 3 days of stopping use. Also - mephedrone ? That is a rec drug, m1t is not a prohormone it is an actual steroid (1 testosterone) - one is a miserable party drug , the other was proven to be more liver toxic than anadrol - with results that can be described best as a poor mans anavar in my opinion.

just wanted to point something out about the bold part

anadrol is not all that liver toxic...the liver toxicity of it is greatly overblown...in several medical trials with people that already have liver issues, they have ran it as high as 100-150 mg/ed for up to a year with little to no changes in liver values

 

[theartofwar]

Do you have the studies brother ? When I'm on drol my liver tends to really get whacked , ALT values are 3x as high as when I run dbol - now I run higher doses of anadrol ... hmmm I'm not sure - I just don't respond well to it - I'd much prefer dbol.

I'm guessing it's my doseage that made my ALTs so much higher than norm on drol.... I do wonder though - if you have a chance I'd love to read the studies brother. Good looking out.

It's amazing how everyone responds differently huh ? For one of my training partners, he can run tbol and get better gains than my results on dbol !!! taking tbol for me is an utter waste of money !!! Genetics are crazy, that's why I love anabolics and peptides

 

[maakshif]

Do you have the studies brother ? When I'm on drol my liver tends to really get whacked , ALT values are 3x as high as when I run dbol - now I run higher doses of anadrol ... hmmm I'm not sure - I just don't respond well to it - I'd much prefer dbol.

I'm guessing it's my doseage that made my ALTs so much higher than norm on drol.... I do wonder though - if you have a chance I'd love to read the studies brother. Good looking out.

It's amazing how everyone responds differently huh ? For one of my training partners, he can run tbol and get better gains than my results on dbol !!! taking tbol for me is an utter waste of money !!! Genetics are crazy, that's why I love anabolics and peptides

I was a little off on the time of use in the studies, don't know why I was thinking that they were up to a year , but regardless, the times used were much longer than a typical cycle used by us for bodybuilding purposes

here's a quote from William Llewelynn:

As far as being c17aa goes, Llewelynn states the following about anadrol:
"oxymetholone has a saturated A-ring which reduces its hepatoxicity relative to other c17aa compounds." In studies done on elderly and HIV patients (who may already have less than optimal liver function) liver toxicity was shown to be very mild. In one study elderly subjects were given either a placebo, 50mg or 100mg for a period of 12 weeks, much longer than most typical cycles. Liver enzymes AST and ALT only increased in the 100mg group, not at all in the 50mg group! Even in the 100mg group for 12 weeks, these enzymes were only slightly elevated.

http://thomasland.metapress.com/cont...t/fulltext.pdf

1. All subjects of this study, which included both males and females, were already very, very sick; they were all suffering from HIV, and chronic wasting disease.
2. They were also all being treated with HAART (highly active antiretroviral therapy) which is itself extremely liver-toxic. (See, for example: http://www.springerlink.com/content/c16434062h650uml/ . http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/50/5/763 )
3. "Aside from HAART, other potential hepatotoxic agents such as fluconazole were administered to 23.9% of the study patients."
4. One group took 150mg/day for 16 weeks, while the other group took 100mg/day for 16 weeks. 16 weeks is more than twice as long as a typical cycle!
5. Despite already being very sick, and receiving multiple additional liver-toxic treatments, and despite taking anadrol for more than twice as long as a typical cycle, in the group taking 100mg/day only 25% had liver problems! This means that the majority, 75%, did not have liver issues!
6. "All liver-related side effects were reversible upon cessation of the drug study."
7. "Other side effects known to be caused by oxymetholone, such as peliosis hepatic, hyperglucagonemia, edema, and hypertension, were not observed in our study." This means no other harmful sides like bloat or high blood pressure were experienced.

 

[theartofwar]

I was a little off on the time of use in the studies, don't know why I was thinking that they were up to a year , but regardless, the times used were much longer than a typical cycle used by us for bodybuilding purposes

here's a quote from William Llewelynn:

Good read brother - thank you.

 

[Matsuo Munefusa.]

I agree if its a tossup between sarms and PH then sarms look best

but there's much better AAS out there...testosterone, nandrolone, trenbolone, mesterolone, oxandrolone, chloro-testosterone, dianabol, etc etc.

 

[p-mo]

Thx for the study. As is often mentioned- liver toxicity from anabolics is overblown....

 

[theartofwar]

I agree if its a tossup between sarms and PH then sarms look best

but there's much better AAS out there...testosterone, nandrolone, trenbolone, mesterolone, oxandrolone, chloro-testosterone, dianabol, etc etc.

I'm with you brother - there is SUCH an obsession with popping a pill on this section of BL though that I was seriously going out of my mind - look @ my cycle and you'll see I'm down with all of the above mentioned !!!! Test and tren is my multi vitamin at this point, the rest I add in as needed.

 

[sandow]

Thx for the study. As is often mentioned- liver toxicity from anabolics is overblown....

You can thank BB.com for that. For every overblown scare regarding steroids and prohormones, thank you bb.com. I have never seen anywhere else such a bunch of mindless sheep all parroting what others are saying without ever taking the time to actually think for themselves or read the actual science. "You better take a Serm Bro!!!

SR and the other Sarms are a bit problematic for me as the long term side effects are unknown and the short term one's are pretty creepy to me. Also, do not use SARMS to bridge as they have been shown to be suppressive themsevles and will greatly reduce recovery time from PCT. I have never been a fan of bridging anyway, but then again I don't have to, I am on HRT.

 

[erko78]

A little off topic but I remember some of my friends taking trenadrol, not sure if anyone remembers it, but man that thing would have them fucked up mentally and physically. Fuck that, after my experience and others, Natural is the way to go IMO!

 

[theartofwar]

A little off topic but I remember some of my friends taking trenadrol, not sure if anyone remembers it, but man that thing would have them fucked up mentally and physically. Fuck that, after my experience and others, Natural is the way to go IMO!

trenadrol lol..

What actual steroids have you taken ? How does it compare to being natural ? I will never stop taking steroids - taking horrible compounds and most likely doing it poorly will lead to guess what.... poor results!!

Being natural and content is a blessing, I simply cannot or will not ever be able to be happy without the use of both AAS and peptides. In 3 months I do what takes 3 years for most people. Believe me because I have taken 8 months off, and 5 months later did a local show.

Plus with fighting I couldn't go off if I wanted, it's like cycling without doping lol... not gonna win shit and personally when you are in a cage getting your face beaten you need every last drop. Nuthin like a big ol shot of suspension 3x a day on week of a fight !!