Bupe First Suboxone dose won't wear off

[tgb]

Hi all,

I've been doing about 200mg of oxycodone (insufflated) per day for several months now and last weekend decided to try Suboxone for the first time ever. I had one 8mg sublingual film. I did half on Friday and the other half on Saturday morning. It's now Thursday (meaning it has been about 120 hours since my last dose of Suboxone) and the Sub just won't seem to wear off. I just did 60mg of oxycodone and felt absolutely nothing.

I know subs are long lasting, but I've never heard of them lasting this long. Has anyone else ever taken one dose and had it last so long? It's not like it was built up in my system. How much longer can it possibly take for the bupe to stop blocking my receptors?

 

[skylines7]

Buprenorphine has an average half life of 36 hours. It can range from 24-96 hours.

I think your problem is that you claim that you were doing 200mg of oxycodone per day, and you only did 60mg. Bupe hangs around in your receptors for a long time, but you should be able to feel it. Everyone's body chemistry is also different. The bupe could still be affecting you. I think you need to do more though. Did 200mg get you high? or was it just keeping your normal?

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^if he's doing 200mg PER DAY, he should feel 60mg in a single dose.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

8mg of bupe likely raised your opiate tolerance considerably.

 

[dielonnn]

Wait so subs increase your tolerance to opiates more than if you did your normal dose of oxy?

 

[IndustrialStrength]

^^ It would depend on the equivalency.
If your normal dose of oxy was equivalent to less than 8mg of bupe then yes 8mg of bupe would raise your tolerance.
If your normal dose of oxy was equivalent to more than 8mg of bupe then no bupe wouldn't raise your tolerance.

It basically comes down to whether or not your doing a higher dose of an opiate.
If the dose of bupe is higher than your normal dose of your DOC then it would raise tolerance.
If your dose of bupe is lower than your normal dose of your DOC then I see no reason it would raise tolerance.

Well there's the blockade effect & such at higher doses but this all is discussed quite thoroughly in the following.

Suboxone/Buprenorphine Megathread and FAQ v11.0

The above thread has more knowledge than you can shake a stick at when it comes to Suboxone.
I highly recommend you give that thread & it's prior incarnations a read.
They are well worth the time it takes to check them out.

 

[stray cat]

ch: do u really think 4 mg 2 days in a row would significantly affect his tolerance 5 days later? maybe it could, i've never done that much.

op, i was thinking that maybe you've kind of built up reacquainting yourself w/ oxy to be something greater than it is during your vacation from it, and now you're just disappointed w/ the substandard effects from 60mg (i mean this is happening on a subconscious level just to be clear). i definitely do not think the buprenorphine should be playing any significant blocking role at this point, so maybe it is tolerance...

 

[DexterMeth]

I imagine PERSONAL cross tolerances and time frames to vary to quite some degree as well.

 

[tgb]

8mg of bupe likely raised your opiate tolerance considerably.

I considered this. But if this were the case, shouldn't I be feeling withdrawal once the Sub wears off? I'm still not feeling WD.


I did look through the Sub/Bup megathread, but there's nothing about it lasting THIS long. Has anyone else had an experience where they couldn't get high more than 100 hours after taking a Sub/bup?

 

[hydrochron]

^Maybe your not feeling withdrawal because you did 60mg's of oc .........8) Somtimes you come down from suboxone and can possibly not have withdrawal. It all depends on the duration of your use.

 

[DexterMeth]

Good point. Also, maybe his tolerance went down during his sub use, hence one of the reasons he went back to oxy; because it wasn't cutting it.

 

[187coopa]

whenver i do sub which is only .5 to 1mg of bupe i am able to take Oxy 12-24 hours later and def get near full effects if not more.

i love bupe makes me feel amazing. but still crave that deep oxy high gah i think im gonna use tomarrow lol and have endless sex sorry lol

 

[tgb]

Update:

Just did 90mg oxycodone (insufflated). I'm feeling only a tiny, tiny high - equivalent to what 15mg would feel like for me before I did the Sub. Not really a high, just a little relaxation. It has now been just over 150 hours since my dose of Suboxone.

To me it doesn't feel like a tolerance thing. Before taking the Sub, if I did a little oxy and didn't feel high enough, I'd be hardcore itching for more right away. But I'm not feeling that now, even though I didn't get any high. It feels like my receptors are still mostly blocked and only a tiny bit of what I'm doing is actually getting through the blockade.

I think I'm gonna go cold turkey on all opiates until I feel some kind of withdrawal or craving. I'm sick of wasting pills.

Has anyone else ever had 8mg of bup block out their highs for over 150 hours? Any suggestions on how i can get the bup out of my system so I can get high again? So far my best idea is just going cold turkey for a while but, that would suck.

 

[IndustrialStrength]

^^ Best of luck to you.
I honestly am not sure what your situation is.
Personally I can do shit like 3-4 hours after I take sub's & feel it fine.
But I usually only do .5 - 1mg of sub so that likely makes the difference.

You may be forced to try just not taking anything.
Personally if I found out I all of sudden got away from opiates with no w/d's I'd dance a jig & be done with them.
But to each there own.

Regardless I wish you the best in your endeavors & I hope you can solve your problems.

 

[funkee]

Buprenorphine is highly bound to blood proteins. In fact 96% percent of the drug is bound to this drug-protein matrix within a few hours dosing. Only the unbound portion is active, so the drug is slowly being released in your blood over the course of several days.

Bupe tolerance does not equal opiate tolerance. The mechanism is different. Someone who takes 200mg might get relief from w/d at very small doses of less than 1mg, especially if they are not dependent. That kind of dose is totally possible to achieve by a successful chipper. Regardless, the amount that you took was sufficient to plug all the mu opioid receptors, thereby blocking the oxy. The remainder that could not bind in the brain stuck to your proteins, and is being released very slowly.

The way that bupe raises your tolerance is by a locally synthesized antagonist, called an arrestin, which is produced on-site (receptor site). It does not equate to the tolerance caused by other full agonists.

With such a high dose and low tolerance to bupe, you will be feeling the effects for quite a while. That is why you need to wait longer than most people who take bupe regularly. Someone who takes bupe at a high dose on a daily basis, will have this localized tolerance and tons of arrestins. They will go into withdrawals much faster and/or be able to switch to another opiate much sooner than someone with no bupe tolerance.

You just have to wait, is all. A good way to check to see if the bupe is still working, if you're not dependent on opiates, is by your pupil size.

 

[tgb]

Funkee, thank you for that incredibly informative post.

The way that bupe raises your tolerance is by a locally synthesized antagonist, called an arrestin, which is produced on-site (receptor site). It does not equate to the tolerance caused by other full agonists.

With such a high dose and low tolerance to bupe, you will be feeling the effects for quite a while.

I had no idea about arrestin before reading this. Now my situation makes a lot more sense.

Someone who takes bupe at a high dose on a daily basis, will have this localized tolerance and tons of arrestins. They will go into withdrawals much faster (...) than someone with no bupe tolerance.

This is the only part I didn't understand. If a person who takes bupe regularly has a lot of built up arrestin, won't it take longer to use them up and go into WD?

A good way to check to see if the bupe is still working, if you're not dependent on opiates, is by your pupil size.

I think I'm pretty dependent, because I'd definitely get WD if I didn't get at LEAST 60mg of oxy a day (again, usually I was doing 200mg per day). Of course my pupils are usually tiny when I'm on opiates, but lately (since I took the bupe) my pupils have stayed fairly normally sized, only shrinking a little when I do oxy. You're suggesting that if the bupe were still affecting me, my pupils would be tiny?

Personally if I found out I all of sudden got away from opiates with no w/d's I'd dance a jig & be done with them.

I have to step back and say this is a really good point. Maybe this is a gift and not a problem. After all, that's why I took Suboxone when I could've just taken more oxy, right?

 

[Georgie25]

That may be true^. Ive been taking about 2mg IV (4x .5mg thru out the day) of bupe per day for 6 months and can take a shot of like .5mg and only 5 hours later am able to feel a 1 bag shot of heroin (under .1g). The only thing I dont get is the rush. But I will get nice and euphoric, small pupils, and the nods.

 

[skylines7]

Bupe tolerance does not equal opiate tolerance. The mechanism is different. Someone who takes 200mg might get relief from w/d at very small doses of less than 1mg, especially if they are not dependent. That kind of dose is totally possible to achieve by a successful chipper. Regardless, the amount that you took was sufficient to plug all the mu opioid receptors, thereby blocking the oxy. The remainder that could not bind in the brain stuck to your proteins, and is being released very slowly
.

This paragraph confuses me. Bupe is an opiod, and is comparable to other opiates/opiods, especially in tolerance. Bupe is 40x stronger than morphine, .25mg of bupe is equal to 10mg of morphine. Bupe is also prescribed as a pain management med as well. With a 200mg per day habit, I don't think in full withdraw less than 1mg would take away all of your symptoms. Nor if you are a chipper and need at least 200mg, I don't think you would need less than 1mg of bupe to get relief. Then again, I am not a doctor or a scientist. I speak from experiences.

Also, if you are not opiate dependent then you are not taking 200mg a day. That is just ridiculous for someone without being dependent. People that I know that chip every now and then don't need even a quarter of that amount.

 

[udoldhead]

For me, the blocking effect of brup (suboxone) was very strong when I first started taking it. Now that my body has gotten "broken in" to it I can take 2mg in the morning and get high on heroin that afternoon-evening. In fact I need less heroin to get high when I take brup in the morning.

Just don't take too much brup. You only need 1 or 2 mg to squash the worst part of opiate withdrawl. If you take too much it will block your opiate high and you'll have to wait longer to get high again.

 

[Weaning]

Hi there. I am new to this site so I cant post a new thread. I have been weaning off opiates for 2 weeks. I got myself down to a very low dose. 4 percocet per day from heroine. I got to the run out day of percocet and jumped off the edge to using nothing. I went one day, waited until I was in withdrawal which was slight because of successfully weaning down so much. I had one 8 mg suboxone that a friend gave me. I took 2 mg yesterday at about 6pm. After reading some posts on here I am scared I've driven my tolerance up again. It worked great. Restless legs gone. I feel normal. No cravings. I'm just wondering if I can now use the remaining suboxone I have to slowly wean over the next few days? How strong is suboxone? Can I wean down now in very slow increments so I have no opiates left in my system and avoid the dreaded depression and lingering wd's that last days?