Film: United 93 - Flight 93

[ChemicalBeauty]

Yeah its not like Vladimir Putin personally warned the whitehouse that planes were to be flown into targetas DAYS before the event!

Putin?

Do you post all cracked out often? Or only in threads that I participate in?

:D

 

[Chronik Fatigue]

^^ Yeah, i'm stalking you fool. Eh, but that's a pretty funny call... But do some research, there were very specific high level warnings coming from intelligence agencies all across the world leading up to the attacks, including a call from Putin (remember, he's ex-FSB and is intimate with the intelligence community.

 

[ChemicalBeauty]

Yeah its not like Vladimir Putin personally warned the whitehouse that planes were to be flown into targetas DAYS before the event!

there were very specific high level warnings coming from intelligence agencies all across the world leading up to the attacks

Well, you've confirmed my thoughts that you are a crackhead

Here's the cnn article that you're referencing, and it's post sept. 11th Not only is it post 9/11, but it was Saddam that was supposedly planning a terrorist attack. And the threats were about as non-specific as can be. 8)

Russia 'warned U.S. about Saddam'
Friday, June 18, 2004 Posted: 12:46 PM EDT (1646 GMT)


Putin says Russia warned the U.S. of planned attacks by Saddam's regime


MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.

The warnings were provided after September 11, 2001 and before the start of the Iraqi war, Putin said Friday.

The planned attacks were targeted both inside and outside the United States, said Putin, who made the remarks during a visit to Kazakhstan.

However, Putin said there was no evidence that Saddam's regime was involved in any terrorist attacks.

"I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.

He said the information was given to U.S. intelligence officers and that U.S. President George W. Bush expressed his gratitude to a top Russian intelligence official.

"This information was indeed passed on through our partner channels to our American colleagues and, moreover, President Bush had an opportunity and used this opportunity to personally thank the leader of one of the Russian special services for this information, which he considered to be very important," Putin said.

Putin made his comments in response to a question from reporters seeking clarification on similar statements leaked by an unnamed intelligence officer in a dispatch by the Interfax news agency.

Russia opposed the invasion of Iraq and Putin said Friday the information did not effect its stance on the war.

He said there were international norms and procedures that weren't observed regarding "the use of force in international actions."

Regarding how the information might have been related to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, Putin said, "Whether or not this was sufficient basis to state the United States was acting within the boundaries of self-defense, well, I don't know. This is a separate issue."

The United States, meanwhile, never mentioned the Russian intelligence in its arguments for going to war.

Hours after Putin spoke, Bush addressed troops at Fort Lewis in the U.S. state of Washington, but he didn't react to the Russian leader's remarks.

He repeated his position that Saddam's regime was a threat to the world and that dangers it posed were the grounds for the invasion last year.

"This is a regime which gave cash rewards to families of suicide bombers. This is a regime that sheltered terrorist groups," Bush said.

He also cited Musab Abu al-Zarqawi, the wanted insurgent in Iraq suspected of many terrorist bombings in Iraq, as an "al Qaeda associate."

Asked about Putin's remarks, U.S. National Security Council spokesman Sean McCormack said, "We don't typically comment on intelligence matters. We do have an excellent record of cooperation in the war on terror with the Russian government. And a big part of the cooperation is information and intelligence sharing."

Putin's comments come two days after members of a U.S. commission looking into the September 11 attacks found there was "no collaborative" relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

The panel also found "no credible evidence" that Iraq was involved in the September 11 terrorist attacks carried out by al Qaeda hijackers.

Bush and his vice president, Dick Cheney, have strongly disputed suggestions that the commission's conclusions contradict statements they made in the run-up to the Iraq war about links between Iraq and al Qaeda.

Cheney said Thursday the evidence is "overwhelming" that al Qaeda had a relationship with Saddam's regime. He said media reports suggesting that the 9/11 commission has reached a contradictory conclusion were "irresponsible." (Full story)

Bush, who has said himself that there is no evidence Iraq was involved in 9/11, sought to explain the distinction Thursday.

The president said that while the administration never "said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated" with Iraqi help, "we did say there were numerous contacts between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda."

"The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda [is] because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda," Bush said. (Full story)

In the lead-up to the Iraq war, Bush made stronger statements alleging cooperation between Iraq and al Qaeda.

In a October 2002 speech he said, "Iraq has trained al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases."

The 9/11 commission's report said bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq during his time in Sudan, despite his opposition to (Saddam) Hussein's secular regime."

It says the contact was pushed by the Sudanese, "to protect their own ties with Iraq," but after bin Laden asked for space in Iraq for training camps, "Iraq apparently never responded."

The report also said, "There have been reports that contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda also occurred after bin Laden had returned to Afghanistan, but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/18/russia.warning/

 

[sn0wburt0n]

in my opinion, i would not like to be of arab descent in the theater during this movie.

 

[Chronik Fatigue]

Here's the cnn article that you're referencing,

Um, no its not 8)

and it's post sept. 11th

Yes, genius, intelligence reports don't tend to get published in the media 8)

Not only is it post 9/11, but it was Saddam that was supposedly planning a terrorist attack. And the threats were about as non-specific as can be. 8)

Actually, the many, many warnings that the US received in the three years leading up to the attacks were very specific...

Here Fox's take on it...

Clues Alerted White House to Potential Attacks
Friday, May 17, 2002
By Carl Cameron
WASHINGTON — The White House again Friday denied it had advance knowledge that a Sept. 11-style attack was coming, though it acknowledged it knew Usama bin Laden was bent on attacking the United States.

"The president was aware that bin Laden, of course, as previous administrations have well known, that bin Laden was determined to strike the United States. In fact, the label on the president's (presidential daily briefing) was 'Bin Laden Determined to Strike the United States,'" White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said Friday.

Indeed, Fox News has reported many examples of "missed leads" that the Bush administration was given prior to Sept. 11.

Among those examples:

– The Italian government shared "general" information of possible attacks in March 2001 based on bugs in apartments in Milan.

– An Iranian in custody in New York City told local police last May of a plot to attack the World Trade Center.

– German intelligence alerted the Central Intelligence Agency, Britain's MI-6 intelligence service, Israel's Mossad in June 2001 that Middle Eastern terrorists were training for hijackings and targeting American and Israeli interests.

– Pakistanis were taken into custody June 4 in the Cayman Islands after they were overheard discussing hijacking attacks in New York City; they were questioned and released, and the information was forwarded to U.S. intelligence.

– Indian intelligence shared "general" information in July 2001.

– In July and August, British intelligence shared "general" information that it had learned through surveillance of Khalid al-Fawwaz, a Saudi Arabian dissident who has publicly acknowledged being a bin Laden operative. Fawwaz, suspected of participating in the 1998 U.S. embassy bombing in Kenya, was arrested after Sept. 11.

– Based on its own intelligence, the Israeli government provided "general" information to the United States in the second week of August that an Al Qaeda attack was imminent.

– French intelligence echoed the "general" information in the final week of August.

– Russian President Vladimir Putin has said publicly that he ordered his intelligence agencies to alert the United States last summer that suicide pilots were training for attacks on U.S. targets.

– Millennium bomber Ahmad Ressam testified in closed and open court trials relating to his Dec. 1999 arrest for trying to bring bomb-making materials across the Canadian border that attack plans, including hijackings and attacks on New York City targets, were ongoing.

– An Islamic terrorist conspiracy was uncovered in 1996 in the Philippines to hijack a dozen airplanes and fly them into CIA headquarters and other buildings. Among the discoveries was a plot for a "bojinka" – a big bang. The information was discovered on a computer and noted in the 1997 trial of Ramzi Yousef, one of the 1993 World Trade Center bombers.

– U.S. investigators confirmed in October that a 29-year-old Iranian in custody in Germany's Langenhagen prison last year made phone calls to U.S. police from his deportation cell that an attack on the World Trade Center was imminent in "the days before the attack." The warning was considered the threat of a madman.

– In October, U.S. government officials confirmed that India's intelligence agency had information before the attacks that two Islamist radicals with ties to Usama bin Laden were discussing an attack on the White House. India's information was not provided to U.S. intelligence until Sept. 13.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,53065,00.html[/quote]

 

[smotpoker]

I saw this last weekend and was satisfied. It explores in detail the last few hours these people had on their flight, and also gives a new view of what was going on on 9/11 from the passengers aboard 93.

You really can't root for the heroes, because you know what the end result will be. This movie is effective at stirring up both anger and sadness.

I'll put it this way: When the credits started rolling as soon as the movie ended, I looked around the packed theatre. Everyone was still sitting. Some were crying, others (including myself), were sitting with our hands over our mouths, in shock. In short this movie had the effect on me I was hoping for.

I am thankful this movie came out. I feel patriotic after seeing it. I don't think it was an exploitation of 9/11. If this wou;d've came out on TV and labeled as a daocumentary, nobody on BL would think so negatively about it. It pretty much was a documentary, only without a narrator.

5 stars.

 

[ChemicalBeauty]

Let me make it just a tad simpler for you. Your words:

there were very specific high level warnings coming from intelligence agencies all across the world leading up to the attacks, including a call from Putin

Your words again:

Yeah its not like Vladimir Putin personally warned the whitehouse that planes were to be flown into targetas DAYS before the event!

The actual "warning" which, again, was not only post 9/11/01 but was as non-specific as can be:

Putin says Russia warned the U.S. of planned attacks by Saddam's regime


MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.

The warnings were provided after September 11, 2001 and before the start of the Iraqi war, Putin said Friday.

The planned attacks were targeted both inside and outside the United States, said Putin, who made the remarks during a visit to Kazakhstan.

However, Putin said there was no evidence that Saddam's regime was involved in any terrorist attacks.

"I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.

Comprehende?

 

[L2R]

Oh shit.

There is now an 80% chance i gave the film, United 93 an unfair bashing. After reading comparisons between United 93 (2006) and Flight 93 (2006) (TV) is seems as though i was watching a bootleg copy of the latter.

I thought i saw the name Greengrass in the director's title. Actually I'm was confident of this (my mate will still check on his copy), but some descriptive differences indicate that i was in fact watching the made for tv drama. Actually, as i mentioned in my first reaction was that i thought it was only worthy for television.

shit

 

[tambourine-man]

In that case, I won't spoil the ending for you.

 

[L2R]

Okay, but what happens at the end of the inflight movie in this version?

 

[tambourine-man]

Kurt Russell manages to kill David Suchet.


**oooooohhhhh... waits for the flames from the trivia-minded**

 

[pillsnapa]

just watched 'UNITED 93'

Even though you know what will happen...I was still shocked.

I think it was well done.


TRAGIC

 

[L2R]

oh shit i did see flight 93 originally.

Paul Greengrass' United 93 is much more well made than that flight piece of shit. The subject matter is taken much more seriously.
3/5

 

[onetwothreefour]

one big "meh" from me.

everyone's proclaiming this as the "best thing ever" because it managed to stay away from the sickeningly patriotic stuff that a lot of people are expecting from 9/11 movies, but how does that make it good?

actually, it was good - just nothing special. it's technically very solid - there is tension built through some occasionally claustrophobic cinematography (though shooting on a plane - is it possible *not* to be claustrophobic?), the acting from mainly non-professionals is quite good, and the whole thing is quite polished - but where's the soul of the film?

too much of the credit assigned to it seems to come from the very fact that it's taken a mature approach to the subject... surely there's more to it than that though?

 

[college_dropout]

I just finished watching United 93. Most of the movie, especially the scenes of the air traffic controllers, were really boring. But the end where the passengers fight back and storm the cockpit was simply amazing. In the last few seconds where you see the ground quickly rushing up, that gave me goosebumps. One of the most moving things I've ever seen.
Overall it was pretty good. It's made me hate Islam even more. If that were possible

 

[alasdairm]

^ why do you hate islam (as opposed to, say, extremists who do evil in the name of islam)?

alasdair

 

[college_dropout]

The beliefs of Islam scare me. Yes, there are passages in the Koran that preach a message of love, but there are so many passages that allow for the violence we see committed in the name of Islam. It's these inconsistencies that give me massive anxiety of what would happen if the West allowed too many Muslims into our communities.

 

[alasdairm]

i'd be the first to admit to ignorance of the koran. if you have the time, i'd be interested to see, perhaps in ce&p rather than here, your elaboration on the specific passages "that allow for the violence we see committed in the name of Islam".

alasdair

 

[(Wordy)]

Finally got around to seeing this. I thought it was a very fine piece of filmmaking.

There's a lot of cynicism about the film in this thread from people who (at the time of posting at least) haven't seen it. This is understandable, considering the subject matter.

I came to the film with no preconceptions. I'm definitely prone to attacks of cynicism(!), but my response to United 93 wasn't cynical at all. To me it's a film with integrity. It doesn't overplay the patriotism card or devolve into melodrama / sentimentality. Full marks for that. And although I'm no expert on the subject, it struck me as well-researched and authentic.

As a case in point, the terrorist who pilots the aircraft following the hijacking is portrayed pretty even-handedly if you ask me. He seems petrified and reluctant to go through with the mission. He's certainly not portrayed as a mindless extremist; in fact there are several suggestions that he's blessed with intelligence and sensitivity. Whereas the rest of them seem like brainwashed kids, acting mainly out of fear.