News Fentanyl Superlab in Canada

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3DQSAR

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While partly dismantled, it's clear to see that the chemists weren't using Quickfit glassware but a commercial 200l pilot-scale reactor with overhead stirrer.

I'm sure someone could find the specific model but they are out there.

Anyone know what came in those orange tubs? I mean, it's possible that precursors are packaged in glass vessels that are themselves placed in such buckets with Styrofoam pellets to provide shock protection.

Anyone prepared to produce compounds that are explicitly criminally controlled at such scale must be insane. It's not an if, only a when you get the knock. I figure a smart chemist would setup labs for others, train the muppets how to 'cook' and leave - because that's a much lower risk.

Of course, not making a controlled drug is, I believe, the rational thing to do - but I appear to be alone in that. People honestly NEVER consider that they WILL 'show up on radar' sooner or later. But if the product is legal....
 
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3DQSAR said:
I don't think the Canadian fentanyl market works quite that way. I may be wrong but it seems that the Canadian model of lab distribution is more like the Dutch model. Decentralization. But why scale? I suspect because on a per-dose basis, bulk fentanyl is worth a lot less than one might think.
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From what I am understanding, the cartel model of distribution is fading and is increasingly a thing of the past. There was just a news article on it this past week that says things have been trending this way globally for quite some time now.

And, yes, you are probably right about the reason it is on scale. I always struggle trying to explain to people how cheap fentanyl actual is because people think that if people are paying hundreds of dollars for a bag that it must be worth that much. As it would so happen, its not lol
 
3DQSAR said:
I figure a smart chemist would setup labs for others, train the muppets how to 'cook' and leave - because that's a much lower risk.
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That's what the master chemists do in Mexico apparently.
Was just reading another news article on this matter as well that was released this past week.
 
ShulginsReincarnation said:
That's what the master chemists do in Mexico apparently.
Was just reading another news article on this matter as well that was released this past week.
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I think it's the same with the speed labs in Europe.

There have been speed lab busts from Poland to Belgium i.e. all over Europe that all share some common, unusual features. Cleverly it avoids using ANY borosilicate glass - the reaction vessels are made from stainless steel. Beer barrels used as reaction vessels.

Nitazenes are likely to be the European opioid of choice, compared to 2023, over three times as much (by weight) were seized. That's 8000Kg to over 30000Kg in a year. It's so cornered the synthetic opioid market. I'm sure these figures are small compared to the US, but something tripling in a year?
 
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3DQSAR said:
I think it's the same with the speed labs in Europe.

There have been speed lab busts from Poland to Belgium i.e. all over Europe that all share some common, unusual features. Cleverly it avoids using ANY borosilicate glass - the reaction vessels are made from stainless steel. Beer barrels used as reaction vessels.

Nitazenes are likely to be the European opioid of choice, compared to 2023, over three times as much (by weight) were seized. That's 8000Kg to over 30000Kg in a year. It's so cornered the synthetic opioid market. I'm sure these figures are small compared to the US, but something tripling in a year?
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Yes, I have been paying close attention to these markets and have heard about both the similarities in lab setups you describe as well as those two theories behind why (can't recall, but it may have been through an EUDA webinar actually.)

As far as the nitazenes, these are my larger concern and so I have been working to spread awareness and have been helping get free test strips distributed wherever possible. There are also other opioids that are of concern with similar potency, but distribution levels are difficult to determine (I haven't seen/heard EUDA mention it yet either, but they are out there.)
 
One problem with the nitazenes is that chemists are exploring the QSAR beyond that of the original work carried out by Ciba in the 60s. So there have been some interesting finds but also, it would seem, compounds with fairly nasty effects.

If I could add an insight - even if Darkweb and indeed bulk sales make it appear that nitazenes came from Eastern Europe, the way the QSAR is being tackled is SO Chinese.

It amazes me that while the vast majority of opioids have never reached human trials, that vast majority remains legal. Self-testing would hardly be novel for medicinal chemists and there will always be a window between a new drug appearing and legal control being applied. I am aware of CSA laws, but there are whole scaffolds as yet untouched.
 
3DQSAR said:
One problem with the nitazenes is that chemists are exploring the QSAR beyond that of the original work carried out by Ciba in the 60s. So there have been some interesting finds but also, it would seem, compounds with fairly nasty effects.

If I could add an insight - even if Darkweb and indeed bulk sales make it appear that nitazenes came from Eastern Europe, the way the QSAR is being tackled is SO Chinese.

It amazes me that while the vast majority of opioids have never reached human trials, that vast majority remains legal. Self-testing would hardly be novel for medicinal chemists and there will always be a window between a new drug appearing and legal control being applied. I am aware of CSA laws, but there are whole scaffolds as yet untouched.
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Yes, that all seems logical to me. I was thinking along these lines too. I was playing around with scaffold hopping a few weeks back. There are very many untouched classes of drugs out there with super potent effect at that, and who knows the side effects. I don't think the distributors much so care at this point about such.
 
3DQSAR said:
I think it's the same with the speed labs in Europe.

There have been speed lab busts from Poland to Belgium i.e. all over Europe that all share some common, unusual features. Cleverly it avoids using ANY borosilicate glass - the reaction vessels are made from stainless steel. Beer barrels used as reaction vessels.

Nitazenes are likely to be the European opioid of choice, compared to 2023, over three times as much (by weight) were seized. That's 8000Kg to over 30000Kg in a year. It's so cornered the synthetic opioid market. I'm sure these figures are small compared to the US, but something tripling in a year?
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Speed labs are in NL decentralised,
like the Freebase made one place. In a in-suspicious place
End product, the Sulphate elsewhere. Probably equally innocent.

At first they had preference for remote locations/ rural area s.
No more.

Now that a MDMA lab blew up part of a street the city i used to work in.
So in the middle of a living area the renters [the poor] Not all survived !
Not business areas, or big shed s that were used for storage of Hay.
And the fact the waste is just dumped. Endangering others,
obviously drug trade changed for worse.

RC producers at least have to follow Law.
The beginning of MDMA the legal/ illegal phase producers had integrity.
The people producing drugs these days lack any moral. Seems.
Money game.

Being a addict to Heroine, Cocaine or Speed att i be scared.
Kick the habit for it hits.
When is it gonna hit our soil ?
 
ShulginsReincarnation said:
Yes, that all seems logical to me. I was thinking along these lines too. I was playing around with scaffold hopping a few weeks back. There are very many untouched classes of drugs out there with super potent effect at that, and who knows the side effects. I don't think the distributors much so care at this point about such.
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With valuable classes e.g. high-potency opioids, one can go for something more complex IF it remains legal. Why invest in a large, costly lab when the Chinese are happy to produce samples? One does need to have an appropriate relationship with a lab but if you provide a paper on the synthesis, they will follow it. Simply removing the sections that describe activity and (usually) the title of an article doesn't faze them - they can reasonably suppose it's commercially sensitive.

If all else fails, rewrite article to appear innocent.

Even the more honest Chinese do not LOOK for problems. Most actually don't want to be involved in RCs but they need noy know...
 
3DQSAR said:
With valuable classes e.g. high-potency opioids, one can go for something more complex IF it remains legal. Why invest in a large, costly lab when the Chinese are happy to produce samples? One does need to have an appropriate relationship with a lab but if you provide a paper on the synthesis, they will follow it. Simply removing the sections that describe activity and (usually) the title of an article doesn't faze them - they can reasonably suppose it's commercially sensitive.

If all else fails, rewrite article to appear innocent.

Even the more honest Chinese do not LOOK for problems. Most actually don't want to be involved in RCs but they need noy know...
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Precisely, and what's more is that customs agents aren't even going to be able to identify the product if its labelled as something innocent. I have worked with Chinese labs before, and the sales agent advised me that the country I was residing in at the time was "suspicious of white powders coming from China" and that the product (albeit legal in the country of destination) may not make it through being properly labeled. I was told the item would be sent through as sucralose as a sample. So, 1 kilo of powder was sent over as sucralose with a 0 EUR declaration as a sample and customs cleared it.

Suppose customs is using FT-IR though... Then, the best they'll get is an approximate of what the substance may be since it is going to be an unknown chemical (same as if they ran a GC/MS or HPLC or similar.) I created a carfentanil hybrid with another natural opioid like alkaloid for the core scaffold. Honestly, it reminded me a bit of fenetylline in the sense that it was a cross of a natural and synthetic drug producing effects in vivo. Anyway, if customs were to inspect it using laboratory testing or whatever, then it would not be able to be identified properly and if it even was they could not stop it since the law states very clearly it must be allowed to pass even if they may not like the fact.

But, yes, I completely agree with your standpoints again on these matters.
 
ShulginsReincarnation said:
Suppose customs is using FT-IR though...
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Suppose they do? I'm dubious of false paperwork. I would say if you are looking to import large quantities of solvents and/or precursors then OK,. maybe. But for a relatively small quantity of an uncontrolled chemical? Custom chemicals is a large business and has diverse customers and suppliers alike. From people offering building-blocks to custom synthesis and intermediate suppliers.

There is no simple metric for 'drug likeness' so who would recognize a shipment as being psychoactive?

IF a package is seized purely because customs is suspicious of the buyer, that's on the buyer. My repost to that would be rapid and expert legal action against customs. In the UK Rudi Fortson K.C. is the accepted expert. Yes, it will cost to retrieve, but done properly, it's customs who ultimately foot the bill.

Actually, the better method is to have the Chinese make the immediate (but inactive and legal) precursor - then do the last step. Sort of a hybrid method but sometimes two completely unsuspicious chemicals will react readily to produce an active. It is effective if you look carefully at how certain compounds are made.
 
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3DQSAR said:
Suppose they do? I'm dubious of false paperwork. I would say if you are looking to import large quantities of solvents and/or precursors then OK,. maybe. But for a relatively small quantity of an uncontrolled chemical? Custom chemicals is a large business and has diverse customers and suppliers alike. From people offering building-blocks to custom synthesis and intermediate suppliers.

There is no simple metric for 'drug likeness' so who would recognize a shipment as being psychoactive?

IF a package is seized purely because customs is suspicious of the buyer, that's on the buyer. My repost to that would be rapid and expert legal action against customs. In the UK Rudi Fortson K.C. is the accepted expert. Yes, it will cost to retrieve, but done properly, it's customs who ultimately foot the bill.

Actually, the better method is to have the Chinese make the immediate (but inactive and legal) precursor - then do the last step. Sort of a hybrid method but sometimes two completely unsuspicious chemicals will react readily to produce an active. It is effective if you look carefully at how certain compounds are made.
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Which compounds behave like that? I didn’t know that such a thing was possible.
 
I've seen Chinese RC vendors offering 1 step away from completion synthetic cannabinoids. Comes with instructions to simply finish the product. They said it was due to the finished compound being illegalized in China. I can't remember which noid off the top of my head but I saw this recently.
 
CashmereCat said:
I've seen Chinese RC vendors offering 1 step away from completion synthetic cannabinoids. Comes with instructions to simply finish the product. They said it was due to the finished compound being illegalized in China. I can't remember which noid off the top of my head but I saw this recently.
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As others have previously noted, there are protecting groups that would make a drug inactive but are non-toxic and can be removed by refluxing in water AKA boil it! I'm sure we WILL see this at some point.
 
3DQSAR said:
As others have previously noted, there are protecting groups that would make a drug inactive but are non-toxic and can be removed by refluxing in water AKA boil it! I'm sure we WILL see this at some point.
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I expect you're right. It doesn't get any easier than that.
 
And more fake news. This is a tiny operation, accounting for a negligible amount of product. The Characterization of Canada as being even close to Mexico's imports is just butthurt from the orange boi.

The reason Amateurs are being swept up is iphones, and most Androids have been backdoored by their respective corporations. People don't bother to root their devices, nor do they understand how a baseband processor works.

The reason this exists at all is our health care system, and no treatment options in North America. Methadone, and suboxone are poorly tolerated by anyone who has spent any time on fetty. We need Diacitalmorphine treatment like the EU.

Watch some of Mental Outlaw's videos if you're concerned about mallicious targeting, and stop using the google services. Most shipments come in through the California seaboard, and drone flights from Mexico btw.

Púca out.
 
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