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FDA rejects MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

Electrum1

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The Food and Drug Administration declined to approve MDMA, commonly known as ecstasy, as a treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder, drugmaker Lykos Therapeutics said Friday.
Experts and advocates say the decision is a minor setback in the growing movement to use psychedelics in the treatment of certain mental health conditions.


There had been intense political pressure on the FDA to approve the drug. Friday's decision was the first time the agency had considered a Schedule 1 psychedelic for medical use. If approved, it would have been the first new treatment for PTSD in more than two decades.
Lykos Therapeutics had asked the FDA to approve the drug as part of a treatment regimen, given alongside talk therapy.
The agency’s decision came after an independent advisory committee in June declined to recommend approval of the drug, saying there was not enough evidence that the therapy was safe and effective


 
Thought so, reaching a verdict based on a advice in less then a day made it seem the decision had allready been made.
But this is a delay as there are other trials still running, the article mentions.

Overhere after a private Mental Health institution offered MDMA assisted therapy.
But used 5-MAPB bought from the same vendor as i got mine.
So therapy with a not for human consumption hardly researched chemical. Sounded a bit illegal and unprofessional.

But in Amsterdam the University Medical Center, started their official first trials with MDMA assisted therapie [faze 3 now ?].
To bad they started on kid and youngsters, and next year will also include adolescents.
Then family's, but no mentioning of any adult/ PTSD program atm.
 
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Yeaaaaah, that advisory committee meeting ...

I was watching and the chair stumbled over the name midomafetamine repeatedly. I don't think he got it right once. Clearly well informed. sarcasm Those big pharma simps also were not comfortable with any concepts that weren't covered in dust. The functional unblinding -- oh, big surprise that most study participants could tell the difference between MDMA and a placebo -- was stuck in their heads as a serious problem.

I worked with government agencies and regulatory authorities in my career. I was disappointed but not shocked, and personally consider these actions as an exercise in moving the opportunity/profit to the "right" people.
 
Yeaaaaah, that advisory committee meeting ...

I was watching and the chair stumbled over the name midomafetamine repeatedly. I don't think he got it right once. Clearly well informed. sarcasm Those big pharma simps also were not comfortable with any concepts that weren't covered in dust. The functional unblinding -- oh, big surprise that most study participants could tell the difference between MDMA and a placebo -- was stuck in their heads as a serious problem.

I worked with government agencies and regulatory authorities in my career. I was disappointed but not shocked, and personally consider these actions as an exercise in moving the opportunity/profit to the "right" people.
Part of the issue here is that the adjunctive "therapy" - like psychotherapy piece - is vague and added in without much guidance. There's a lot of buzz-words that get thrown in but when you peel back the layers it ends up demonstrating very little in the way of a firm intervention.

Throwing psychedelics at widespread mental health issues can, and likely will, lead to unintended consequences when there aren't robust safeguards in place to ensure proper and effective use. Just because it seems like a good idea doesn't mean that it actually is. The worst thing I can envision is a system where we half-ass the roll out of psychedelic therapies leading to an uptick on the pharma side while the psychotherapy side languishes in uncertainty. Most clinical professionals I work with have very little understanding about how we should even interface with this stuff, and training existing therapists to use these models or even incorporate psychedelic integration, is pretty far from a given.

I don't think you're incorrect about "the right people" being a priority, but I also think that MAPS hasn't been doing the best job leading the charge in many ways. Further, the move from a Public Benefit corporation as it initially was modeled, into a purely for-profit group in Lykos has been deeply troubling to me.

From an article in Vox in June:

Regulators also weren’t sure if MDMA would harm the liver or cardiovascular system in the long term because Lykos didn’t gather evidence for long enough to know. And we don’t know about the drug’s addictive potential because Lykos failed to report on addiction-driving effects like euphoria; worse, some claim that Lykos pressured participants not to mention bad outcomes.

Regarding the lack of clarity in how therapy actually fit into all of this:

But there was another major question looming over Lykos (previously known as MAPS public benefit corporation, the biggest force pushing psychedelics toward legalization over the past few decades). It’s a question that had begun to bubble up in the news and which finally burst out at the FDA hearing: What the hell is going on with the “therapy” part of Lykos’s “MDMA therapy”?

“The drugs have been manipulated many times across studies, but the studies have not manipulated the therapy component at all,” Aday said. “That’s problematic. This is considered a combined drug-therapy treatment, and so far we’ve only evaluated 50 percent of that equation.”

Some types of therapy, like cognitive behavioral therapy, have plenty of evidence to back up their effectiveness when used on their own. Others, not so much. Lykos favors certain therapy modalities that have less of an evidence base and more of a New Age flavor. Some prominent critics have said Lykos’s approach leads to foreseeable harms for patients, to the point that they argue Lykos qualifies as a “therapy cult.”

In one of the most fucked up examples of 'drinking the kool-aid' I've seen mentioned:

In one case, therapist Veronika Gold touched a patient, Annie, who became distressed and physically struggled against her. Gold was not troubled. She writes in a book on psychedelic therapy: “Annie began to add her voice, expressing anger and saying, ‘Go away! Get your fucking hands away from me!’ The words were clearly meant for her father and did not indicate that she wanted me to go away or stop. Because we had the agreement to use the specific safe word “enough” if she wanted me to stop the touch, there was no confusion in my mind about how to proceed. Over the course of the next several minutes, she pushed my hands with increasing vigor and force.”

This is deeply concerning and creates a self-protecting dynamic in the therapist's mind where the only way to frame difficulties is to place the blame solely on the patient, excuse any missteps by the clinician, and treats someone who is dealing with significant distress as both the only person who can and should know what the rules are, and also like a child who doesn't know what's better for them.

I've met Doblin before, I've heard him speak, and I've seen the way he disregards legitimate critique while feeding his own self-righteousness in the pursuit of having the last word. He has followed closely in the footsteps of his psychedelic predecessors in a way that is incredibly dangerous while also standing to make an enormous payday had MDMA or 'midofetamine' (clearly branded to move away from the sinister sounding methamphetamine part of MDMA's name and also ridiculous to try and say with a straight face) been given approval. These drugs may increase positive change, and they can very easily increase the risk of severely traumatic responses in the one place that someone's supposed to be safe.

In a rambling e-mail sent out to people on MAPS's email list last week, Doblin made a very unclear appeal to the masses to view this decision as unjust and a slap in the face to the smart people in the room against a tyrannical federal agency. I have plenty of issues with the federal government and the persecution of drug users who have found real benefits from drugs like MDMA, but I have even more problems with people who chose to exploit these drugs while silencing the very reasonable dissent or critique that comes along in the process.

I know that MAPS is well connected here, and I do not want to minimize the good work that has been done over the years - I also don't feel like it's responsible to ignore the way in which this potential cash windfall has likely corrupted some folks involved in this process from the get-go. I am a therapist who works with patients who struggle with chronic mental health issues and addiction every day. I see the way in which systems have let them down, and the ways in which pharmaceuticals have made their lives objectively worse, all while regular folks end up having very little say in the process. In the end, this whole thing has shown to me what the true priorities of some members of the psychedelic vanguard have grown to become. They've exploited traditional spiritual practices under the auspices of healing, while silencing traditional practitioners and legitimate criticisms all along. It's all very obvious to me and I hope that this gives us all a moment of pause before we put people like Doblin on pedestals.
 
@tryptakid in comparison with the institute in NL that offered MDMA assisted therapy.
But actually gave 5-MAPB assisted therapy using a RC not ment for human consumption.

So not Pharmaceutical grade MDMA, but from the same RC vendor I buy fro time to time.
Medically seen this is unresponseable and cannot believe would be approved by medical institutions.

That MAPS which seemed so promising, has become a for-profit company is more shocking news.
So esentially MAPS is no longer independent.
Lets hope other public beneficial ones, like Amsterdam UMC will finish the work.
And solid treatment traject is developed based on science, without messing the results.
 
I expected nothing else. They cancelled vaping, those idiots and , when it comes to mdma? No way. Yet. Maybe in 20 years.
 
Overhere after a private Mental Health institution offered MDMA assisted therapy.
But used 5-MAPB bought from the same vendor as i got mine.
So therapy with a not for human consumption hardly researched chemical. Sounded a bit illegal and unprofessional.

But in Amsterdam the University Medical Center, started their official first trials with MDMA assisted therapie [faze 3 now ?].
To bad they started on kid and youngsters, and next year will also include adolescents.
Then family's, but no mentioning of any adult/ PTSD program atm.

Ja echt? Ik hoor niet over dit. Hebt je meer informatie over dit? Ik vrag omdat ik liep door UMC elke week en ik dink soms mensen vertelt me daar. Naar kinderen je zegt. Dat is niet normal. Waar hort je dit?

Ik zie dit in de krant ook niet?

Natrulijk wij moeten werken voor de gezonheid van alle mensen. Dit betekent goed regels voor psychedelics. Dus wij hebben de Open Foundation alsof MAPS.

Mogelijk wij hebben geen reden vor de Open Foundation als de VS prat over MAPS als ze doen. Hebben wij geen hoop?

Danen mijnzelf ik dink dat psychedelics wordt een kans voor ons to hebben liefede in ons hart. Mijn vrienden heir dink dat ook. Dus wij moeten de Open Foundation, Beckley Foundation, MAPS, en meer hebben.
 
Ja echt? Ik hoor niet over dit. Hebt je meer informatie over dit? Ik vrag omdat ik liep door UMC elke week en ik dink soms mensen vertelt me daar. Naar kinderen je zegt. Dat is niet normal. Waar hort je dit?

Ik zie dit in de krant ook niet?

Natrulijk wij moeten werken voor de gezonheid van alle mensen. Dit betekent goed regels voor psychedelics. Dus wij hebben de Open Foundation alsof MAPS.

Mogelijk wij hebben geen reden vor de Open Foundation als de VS prat over MAPS als ze doen. Hebben wij geen hoop?

Danen mijnzelf ik dink dat psychedelics wordt een kans voor ons to hebben liefede in ons hart. Mijn vrienden heir dink dat ook. Dus wij moeten de Open Foundation, Beckley Foundation, MAPS, en meer hebben.
Hier heb je de directe link. https://makemdmamedicine.nl/
In roadmap staat de tijdlijn van het project.

Er was eerder wel een ander officieel medisch instituut dat zogezegd MDMA therapie aanbood aan mensen met onbehandelbare PTSS.
Op NPO/ TV gezien, shockeerend 🤯 omdat ze 5-MAPB gebruikten, van een bekende NLs vendor btw.

Vast een perfect alternatief is, maar een RC/ niet voor menselijke consumptie voorschrijven is onproffessioneel en lijkt me illegaal.

Maar MDMA assisted therapie nederland geeft een hoop resultaten. Op DuckDuckGo !

Kan je ook Engels 5MeoAmt? Effe tussendoor.
Wat een stofje jouw naam, alsof aMT al niet heftig genoeg was.

In een thread over psychedelische / MDMA therapie, hebben we gefilosofeerd over of iemand met ervaring met de middelen, en inzicht in de mogelijkheden van therapeutisch gebruik.
Een begeleider in een medische set en setting niet perse noodzakelijk is om een resultaat te boeken.

Voor kinderen, jongeren, drug naieve mensen en mensen met complexe traumas. Zou dit vast het best zijn en mischien ook voor mij. Dus dat er non profit organisaties mee bezig houden is goed. MAPS las ik net is net pro-profit geworden en hernaamd. En hun manual rammelt hier en daar.

Zelf therapie is niet uitgesloten.
 
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Yes, I could speak English, when in Rome...

Thanks for the link emkee.

That's an interesting hypothesis. All medicine is a cost vs benefit relationship and the severity of symptoms is relevant. IMO, 16-17 years would not be old enough to proceed with psychedelic assisted psychotherapy unless there were extraordinary circumstances. Though of course young folks use drugs and alcohol on their own already. Amphetamine sulfate is a commonly prescribed psychotropic in this age group with positive results under appropriate supervision. We have to wait for the peer reviewed results from this Dutch study.

Personally I believe that LYKOS takes a more responsible approach with larger more well researched studies on adults.

On the topic of LYKOS' corporate structure: LYKOS has the structure of a public benefit corporation and pays taxes in addition to having more legal obligations to guarantee that the corporation prioritizes the benefit of society appropriately. Public benefit corporations also have additional protections that vary based on the sate they are registered to do business in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation

There's enormous potential in psychedelic therapy and it is very disappointing that that an incident of misconduct trumped this and now they have to repeat the phase three trials.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/12/health/mdma-ptsd-retractions.html
 
I'm not very well versed in drug policy and the wider political scene around drugs, but this doesn't really surprise me.

For the average person with the average standard of evidence, it's clear MDMA is beneficial and often effective in treating PTSD. But the FDA, these days, is extremely thorough when they are deciding whether or not to approve a drug.

The FDA didn't claim MDMA isn't effective for treating PTSD. I think the evidence for its efficacy it's clear at this point. But as I said before, the public expects thoroughness from the FDA. There issue was with other aspects of the studies themselves.

An issue that's plagued clinical research into psychedelics (and MDMA) when developing them as a treatment for X disease has been ensuring the study is designed in such a way to avoid bias. In many of the more recent MDMA research, at times far more then HALF of the participants reported having positive recreational experiences with MDMA. Large portions of the patient cohort AND the therapists are active in MDMA activist circles too. If you had to assess the reliability of these results, what would YOU think?

These aspects can make the FDA think twice about approval. When this sort of bias is potentially colouring the objective results of the study, it calls for more research which I'm sure will happen. I don't believe for a moment this was "personal" for the FDA. It seems to me that the FDA has honest concerns about the findings of MDMA as indicated for PTSD. We can be sure this isn't the end of the story. More research needs to be and will be conducted that reduces these bias'.

I think people sometimes forget the FDA isn't like the DEA. The FDA usually acts on the advice of expert panels made up of academics and medical professionals. It's rare for the FDA to refuse the advice of these panels (although it does happen).

If this was a drug other then MDMA, lets say an atypical anti-psychotic for a new indication. Would you want to know the FDA has done its due diligence in ensuring the studies where conducted in such a way to avoid obvious bias' and other issues? I know I would! We cannot let our love and support of these psychedelic medicines cloud our rationality.

It's also worth discussing that one of the therapists involved in these MDMA clinical trials sexually assaulted a patient during a session. A single bad actor (such as this therapist) has the capacity to totally sink our mission.

Here's a very informative and unbiased review of why the FDA denied MDMA approval for PTSD:

This isn't the end for MDMA assisted psychotherapy. There will be a resubmission in later years, and I am confident if these issues can be ironed out, we will have a publicly available LEGAL MDMA treatment.
 
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Those fucking cunts!

In all seriousness though, I can't advocate heavily enough for the use of MDMA for exactly this! That being said its still not like I feel id tell anyone suffering to go down some MDMA, this is definitely needing to be done right. I just hope for once they can get through this smoothly. Personally I dream of a day LSD is seen and used in such a way like the current different magic mushroom studies taking place, however I understand not nearly as many have a LSD experience as close and as registerable as of course MDMA can be.
 
Yes, I could speak English, when in Rome...

Thanks for the link emkee.

That's an interesting hypothesis. All medicine is a cost vs benefit relationship and the severity of symptoms is relevant. IMO, 16-17 years would not be old enough to proceed with psychedelic assisted psychotherapy unless there were extraordinary circumstances. Though of course young folks use drugs and alcohol on their own already. Amphetamine sulfate is a commonly prescribed psychotropic in this age group with positive results under appropriate supervision. We have to wait for the peer reviewed results from this Dutch study.

Personally I believe that LYKOS takes a more responsible approach with larger more well researched studies on adults.

On the topic of LYKOS' corporate structure: LYKOS has the structure of a public benefit corporation and pays taxes in addition to having more legal obligations to guarantee that the corporation prioritizes the benefit of society appropriately. Public benefit corporations also have additional protections that vary based on the sate they are registered to do business in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation

There's enormous potential in psychedelic therapy and it is very disappointing that that an incident of misconduct trumped this and now they have to repeat the phase three trials.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/12/health/mdma-ptsd-retractions.html
The last link, explains the FDA disapproval. No conspiracy, a sexual assault during a session.
Someone else also pointed that the MAPS Manual has flaws. Which give oppurtunity to people without integrity.

Same as the clinic over here advertising their MDMA assisted therapie and good results/ on national tv.
Then shows a bag of the RC 5-MAPB/ 'not ment for human consumption' in view.
And adds as MDMA is illegal we use this , which mimics it very well, just as MDMA would be used.
Totally immoral, and could cause trouble for this kinda treatment development pace.
Maybe delaying a good well set up trial like Amsterdam UMC.


Your Dutch was quite good, not totally fluid but a lot can cause that, no offense ment. Your English is fluid!
But you dont often get a reply in your native language. Like a sort of private discussion no one understands ;)
 
I read a more detailed report on this not long ago. Will try to find the link.

Basically MAPS fucked this up by not having the research conducted by qualified clinicians, IE doctors. FDA took one look at it and said nope, do it again with people who are actually qualified.

Not choosing the most qualified people was a methodology error IMO.
 
I read a more detailed report on this not long ago. Will try to find the link.

Basically MAPS fucked this up by not having the research conducted by qualified clinicians, IE doctors. FDA took one look at it and said nope, do it again with people who are actually qualified.

Not choosing the most qualified people was a methodology error IMO.
Amsterdam UMC is a good medical facility. Lets hope they do it right.
In 2030 we will have MDMA therapie available for all ages.

When all goes as planned. https://makemdmamedicine.nl/
 

From 1 July this year, medicines containing the psychedelic substances psilocybin and MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxy-methamphetamine) can be prescribed by specifically authorised psychiatrists for the treatment of certain mental health conditions.
 
I think it is important to remember that the FDA did not say "no" to MDMA. They said, "We need more info." Basically, they requested an additional phase 3 study to review. This is problematic, because Lykos does not have the money raised to fund an additional phase 3 study at this time, and their funders will be dissuaded from further contributions due to the errors with the initial phase 3 study.

I thought the advisory panel to the FDA raised some legitimate concerns, but also some erroneous concerns.

It is a clear ethical violation of the APA Code of Ethics for any mental health professional to engage in sexual contact with a patient. This absolutely should not have occurred in any scenario. And yes, this does raise concerns about the structure of the therapy sessions. You have a married couple acting as therapists in a room with a young female patient, and the patient is vulnerable and under the influence of an erotic drug. Who safeguards the patient in that scenario? Why are the sessions structured in that manner? Objectively, would an observer help to mitigate the risks of situations like this?

However, should one ethical violation call the results of an entire phase 3 study into question?

The complaint that it was not truly a double-blind study seems ridiculous to me. Any drug with a known effects profile would create the same concern. The structure of this phase 3 study was approved by the FDA. That is the point that this should have been brought up as an issue, not after the study was completed. Maybe there should have been three groups of patients, the MDMA group, the placebo group, and a third group that received an active and euphoric substance. These are structural methodology questions, and should not be thrown in the face of the researchers AFTER the study is funded and completed.

The most legitimate concern I saw noted was that Lykos may have made an attempt to conceal certain side-effects from the published data. Specifically, suicidality may have been concealed from the study results. That is a big problem, especially considering that preventing suicide is one of the primary hopes in treating PTSD. Any time you see researchers trying to repress or conceal data, that is a red flag.

Also a red flag, however, is that the advisory committee was made up of people who have been working with OTHER companies trying to develop drugs similar to MDMA for the treatment of PTSD. So, what is their primary goal? Do they want to prevent MDMA from being approved so that their novel compound can be approved first and receive the bulk of the profits?

I also read concerns that MAPS and Lykos were too invested in MDMA being approved. Aren't all companies invested in their drugs being approved? Most of the time, the company that brings a drug to the FDA has the potential for tremendous profit due to the drug being patented. I don't see how this is any different.

Overall, I am disappointed. But, I find it promising that they did not reject it outright and only requested more information. Asking for additional research is not the worst outcome that could have occurred.

I agree with the posters who have commented that the therapy side of the protocol needs to be clearly defined. Really, they should be working with an established model of therapy. I was pleased to see that a new study is underway with exposure therapy, as exposure therapy is already an effective and established treatment for PTSD.
 
If someone is resolved to attempt to unofficially treat a specific PTSD patient with MDMA, the supply of MDMA could certainly be arraigned. What's the fuss?
The reaction on this thread seems to come from MDMA club scene fan crowd rather than from the medical community.
 
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