Opioids evaporating waters from Poppy Seed Tea into smokeable materials

[Soul11]

have access on 2kg of poppy seeds.

Was planning to use 1 kg, 500g to each on 1L water bottle, wash it with water, then filter it with coffee filter then pour it into pyrex glass to evaporate on oven on 50C so the waters eventually turns to

resins for type of 'putty' for dabs or on foil for smokeable form.

on this process, i was informed that boiling the water might degrade some of alkaloids so i was going to skip through boiling process before pouring the washed water into pyrex glass but reading through some of post suggested at least heating

up to medium hot will decrease the water volume and filtering the waters multiple time is also suggested.

My question is, all the multiple filtering and boiling the water to reduce the amount of water is necessarily or will it be fine to just wash it down, filter it with coffe filter and pour it into pyrex to oven on 50C until i can scrape up the residue will do the job?

 

[Wishdoctor79]

First things first. You're planning out a lot of work to process poppy seeds to make a smokeable product but you don't know if you'd feel anything from drinking even large quantities of a tea from the seeds. You're getting way ahead of the reality that poppy seeds vary a lot in opiate content. They're breeding and engineering poppy seeds with minimal opiate content.

The problem with processing in all those steps using heat is yes, opiate breakdown, which Jim Hogshire in Opium for the Masses said, p. 65: "Just make sure the temperature doesn't go over 70 degrees Celsius (158 degrees Farehenheit)." He's talking there about brewing the tea from poppy pods, not seeds.

Planning a big undertaking based on seeds to make a smokeable product it's gonna have physical losses at every step and maybe the opiates if there are any could be deposited out on your equipment in addition any to losses from heat-related breakdown. Some unknown amount of drug would go down the drain every time you clean all that equipment.

I've always found it easy to find pods and if it's a high quality fresh pod I grind them in a coffee grinder, seeds included, and breaking open most of the seeds, which makes a very palatable oily powder that i measure into a small custard dish by the gram and add some apple sauce and flax oil and molasses to make a very tasty little poppy pods treat eaten directly without any product losses because the coffee grinder is used only for pods and not for coffee, throwing away only the very hard base of the poppy pods before grinding them. And no heat losses either, or worrying about the temperature except maybe the motor of the coffee grinder overheating the powder.

Maybe you can't get pods. Well, if seeds are all you can get then work on the poppy seed tea and get it down perfect before branching off into trying to make something smokeable from it. Many have tried that path and very few have succeeded. Maybe in a message board devoted to dried poppies you could get better advice but all those message boards seem to have disappeared or they're keeping a low profile and are by invitation only.

 

[Soul11]

First things first. You're planning out a lot of work to process poppy seeds to make a smokeable product but you don't know if you'd feel anything from drinking even large quantities of a tea from the seeds. You're getting way ahead of the reality that poppy seeds vary a lot in opiate content. They're breeding and engineering poppy seeds with minimal opiate content.

The problem with processing in all those steps using heat is yes, opiate breakdown, which Jim Hogshire in Opium for the Masses said, p. 65: "Just make sure the temperature doesn't go over 70 degrees Celsius (158 degrees Farehenheit)." He's talking there about brewing the tea from poppy pods, not seeds.

Planning a big undertaking based on seeds to make a smokeable product it's gonna have physical losses at every step and maybe the opiates if there are any could be deposited out on your equipment in addition any to losses from heat-related breakdown. Some unknown amount of drug would go down the drain every time you clean all that equipment.

I've always found it easy to find pods and if it's a high quality fresh pod I grind them in a coffee grinder, seeds included, and breaking open most of the seeds, which makes a very palatable oily powder that i measure into a small custard dish by the gram and add some apple sauce and flax oil and molasses to make a very tasty little poppy pods treat eaten directly without any product losses because the coffee grinder is used only for pods and not for coffee, throwing away only the very hard base of the poppy pods before grinding them. And no heat losses either, or worrying about the temperature except maybe the motor of the coffee grinder overheating the powder.

Maybe you can't get pods. Well, if seeds are all you can get then work on the poppy seed tea and get it down perfect before branching off into trying to make something smokeable from it. Many have tried that path and very few have succeeded. Maybe in a message board devoted to dried poppies you could get better advice but all those message boards seem to have disappeared or they're keeping a low profile and are by invitation only.

i have tried the tea from it only using cold water with 1 time wash and used around 250g and it was really potent, i have done drinking tea from the seed numerous times, there is no doubt about the quality of the seeds.

 

[Wishdoctor79]

OK. That's great. But since your seeds and your water and the tea you make are unique to you, any method you develop might not work at all for someone else using different materials. Feel free to keep this thread alive with your progress notes towards this goal.

Many people have tried to make something smokeable from pod tea, and also from seed tea. Most of the time they look back and realize it was a lot of time and effort and source material that didn't pan out. I read this book in the 90s and bought a huge soup pot holding four or five gallons. It was used only once and I wasted a large amount of poppy pods. Here's the full section from pp. 65-66, Loompanics, 1994:

Making Opium From Poppy Tea

Once you've made opium tea, it's a cinch to make plain old opium by letting the water evaporate off. You can best do this in a glass brownie or casserole dish, letting a small fan play over the surface to speed the process. Alternatively, a crock-pot type slow cooker can be used. Just make sure the temperature of the liquid doesn't exceed 70 degrees centigrade (158 F). A day or so later you'll be left with a watery sludge you'll need to sort of marshal to one corner and continue drying. In this way you'll be able to collect the opium, which can be very sticky.

After it dries a little more you can roll the opium into pea-sized balls and pretend you're in Victorian England or fashion it into festive shapes. Encase the pills in gold leaf and pretend you're a Turkish sultan. You can also use this opium to make laudanum or any of a bunch of concoctions described below. You can also smoke it. This is opium as it has been handled for centuries. ... This lesser quality opium was normally sold as "smoking opium."

The quality of tea-opium also depends on the amount of plant matter in it. Too much poppy head residue and the opium will be light brown, dry, and flaky. Ideally the opium will be dark, dark brown and very sticky. It is bitter and has a licorice-like taste. This can be either chewed before swallowing or even dissolved under the tongue. Some people really hate the taste however (some people hate licorice). To avoid flaky opium, filter the tea more thoroughly before evaporating. Coffee filters, silk, or cheese cloth can be used.

 

[Wishdoctor79]

Oops. Now that I think back to what I did it wasn't for making opium, instead I was trying to extract morphine base from poppy straw. That's what the huge soup pot was used for only once.

I was quite happy drinking the poppy pod tea and never tried making anything smokeable from it. I very much enjoy the taste of eating or drinking it and have never had genuine smokeable opium and never tried to obtain it. Maybe if there was an old Chinatown where I could lay back and have it all prepared for me i'd try that.

There was a message board at driedpoppies.org where I used to hang out and there was a lot of talk about extractions and other related products.

 

[Xorkoth]

Extracting the opium from poppy seeds works best with room temperature water, shaken for 5-10 minutes, then pour the liquid off. If you use hot water, the seeds tend to soften up and reabsorb the opium alkaloids. I think in terms of maintaining potency and getting the the most of the extraction, you might want to use a minimal amount of water (as little as is feasible to still extract from the seeds), and then start evaporatting by blowing a heat fan over it in a tray. When the volume gets lower, add your herbs or whatever you want to infuse it on, and let it finish evaporating.

I could be wrong but those are my thoughts.

 

[Wishdoctor79]

Jim Hogshire's suggestion of a fan just to move the air was what he did in Seattle which is a cool coastal clime that might be similar to coastal South Korea, oops, it's Korea not Japan. It's so humid in Seattle that mold and mildew can get going very quickly in plant product extracts.

 

[Soul11]

Extracting the opium from poppy seeds works best with room temperature water, shaken for 5-10 minutes, then pour the liquid off. If you use hot water, the seeds tend to soften up and reabsorb the opium alkaloids. I think in terms of maintaining potency and getting the the most of the extraction, you might want to use a minimal amount of water (as little as is feasible to still extract from the seeds), and then start evaporatting by blowing a heat fan over it in a tray. When the volume gets lower, add your herbs or whatever you want to infuse it on, and let it finish evaporating.

I could be wrong but those are my thoughts.

i agree with you on not letting it sit on the water for too long in hot waters and using minimal water as possible since its hard to evaporate it all afterall right now i dont have access to heat fan but the apartment i rented right now at the moment in istanbul happen to have oven! so i will give it a try it on 50C heat and give it a go on a pyrex glass!

 

[Soul11]

Jim Hogshire's suggestion of a fan just to move the air was what he did in Seattle which is a cool coastal clime that might be similar to coastal South Korea, oops, it's Korea not Japan. It's so humid in Seattle that mold and mildew can get going very quickly in plant product extracts.

well yeah in Jeju its humid as F mainland korea shouldnt be too humid, but right now im stuck in Istanbul...all borders are closed until end of the month...been stuck here for 2 monthes T.T kinda want to go back home but hey, at least i can find good Turkish seeds haha. i ordered in online hopefully it will arrive soon, i will keep you guys posted on the progress

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah an oven would work too for using heat to aid evaporation, just make sure to turn it down really low, probably as low as it will go.

 

[Wishdoctor79]

I think the reason so many people failed after using the Jim Hogshire method is the low solubility of morphine in water. Morphine as found in poppy straw is presumably in the same chemical form as the morphine residues which can make poppy seed tea worth drinking.

It's the filtration that he says can be done with coffee filters, silk, or cotton. Maybe he was doing that filtration with a hot liquid to minimize the retention of morphine on the filter material.

Only one gram of morphine hydrate dissolves in 5 liters of water. Morphine hydrate is created when morphine (free base) is dissolved in water. See http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/morphine/Morphine.htm

I'd strongly suggest that you avoid paper or fabric filters and instead use a metal filter like the Melitta gold-plated mesh coffee filter.

This patent on morphine extraction talks about using an alcoholic solvent to recover precipitated morphine left on the filter from prior steps.
United States Patent 6,054,584 Process for Extracting and Purifying Morphine From Opium

US Pat 6,054,584 - Process for Extracting and Purifying Morphine From Opium

Any alkaloids precipitated on a filter aid or paper in the process may be recovered by extraction with an alcohol, preferably methanol. The filter aid can be used again without further purification.

 

[G_Chem]

I think the reason so many people failed after using the Jim Hogshire method is the low solubility of morphine in water. Morphine as found in poppy straw is presumably in the same chemical form as the morphine residues which can make poppy seed tea worth drinking.

It's the filtration that he says can be done with coffee filters, silk, or cotton. Maybe he was doing that filtration with a hot liquid to minimize the retention of morphine on the filter material.

Only one gram of morphine hydrate dissolves in 5 liters of water. Morphine hydrate is created when morphine (free base) is dissolved in water. See http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/morphine/Morphine.htm

I'd strongly suggest that you avoid paper or fabric filters and instead use a metal filter like the Melitta gold-plated mesh coffee filter.

This patent on morphine extraction talks about using an alcoholic solvent to recover precipitated morphine left on the filter from prior steps.
United States Patent 6,054,584 Process for Extracting and Purifying Morphine From Opium

US Pat 6,054,584 - Process for Extracting and Purifying Morphine From Opium

Any alkaloids precipitated on a filter aid or paper in the process may be recovered by extraction with an alcohol, preferably methanol. The filter aid can be used again without further purification.

Thing is though morphine is found as the meconate or other salts with much higher solubility in water than 1g per 5L. Morphine salts are very water soluble for the most part.


To the OP, it’s a waste of time unless you’ve got a lot to process and plan on doing more than a simple soak and evaporate. I’ve tried this when I was a kid with the exact same intentions as you and it was crude unsmokeable product.

-GC

 

[Wishdoctor79]

Here's a very through 1957 review of morphine extraction techniques for poppy straw with much talk of filtration and a warning about high temperature.

UNODC - Bulletin on Narcotics - 1957 Issue 2 - 006

Assistant Professor of Chemistry, University of Montreal, Montreal, Canada

www.unodc.org

The manufacture of alkaloids from opium

Assistant Professor of Chemistry, University of Montreal, Montreal, Canada
Author: Walter R Heumann
Pages: 34 to 40
Creation Date: 1957/01/01

Extreme conditions of concentration, temperature and pH are avoided as far as possible. As already mentioned, the handling of highly concentrated opium extracts is not very convenient, and such extracts release the alkaloids less easily and in a considerably less pure state than a dilute solution does. Higher temperature, particularly when combined with an alkaline reaction or when the solution is in contact with the air, can be deleterious to morphine.

 

[Wishdoctor79]

Morphine as found in poppy straw does not occur in sulfate or hydrochloride form. Those morphine salts used for pharamceutical morphine are roughly 300 times more soluble in water than the naturally occurring morphine hydrate of a poppy straw/water solution.

 

[Soul11]

Thing is though morphine is found as the meconate or other salts with much higher solubility in water than 1g per 5L. Morphine salts are very water soluble for the most part.


To the OP, it’s a waste of time unless you’ve got a lot to process and plan on doing more than a simple soak and evaporate. I’ve tried this when I was a kid with the exact same intentions as you and it was crude unsmokeable product.

-GC

Oh man, did u evaporate it under 70C? and made sure the seed was good one? i do read multiple threads in other sites that some people ended up with just crude with no effect and i also read threads that people saying by

doing soaking and filteration and evaporating under right temp came up with good results. i guess i have to give it a go and see it for my self

here is one of success story i read from other site. looks quite alright,

 

[G_Chem]

Oh man, did u evaporate it under 70C? and made sure the seed was good one? i do read multiple threads in other sites that some people ended up with just crude with no effect and i also read threads that people saying by

doing soaking and filteration and evaporating under right temp came up with good results. i guess i have to give it a go and see it for my self

here is one of success story i read from other site. looks quite alright,

Morphine isn’t that fragile, if it was it degrade during many common synthesis using like morphine to heroin.

I’m not sure if the seeds were good cuz my tolerance was through the roof but while you may get a puddy it won’t be enjoyable smoked.

-GC

 

[KS78]

@Soul11, you live in Istanbul, right? Why are you messing with seeds when you can buy potent dried poppy pods from online florists? They are very good price and unlike seeds (never worked for me), they are pretty much guaranteed to provide you a good long lasting opiate high.

 

[Soul11]

@Soul11, you live in Istanbul, right? Why are you messing with seeds when you can buy potent dried poppy pods from online florists? They are very good price and unlike seeds (never worked for me), they are pretty much guaranteed to provide you a good long lasting opiate high.

Yes bro curruntly at Akbati now,

yeah i didnt have much knowledge about availability of acquiring pods. man if i spoke turkish better i think i might have chance to make friends here to just even get legit afyon but meh...

i should look up the dried pods thank you KS78!

 

[Soul11]

By the way guys, ,seeds came and yup u guys were right. EVERYTHING WENT TO SHIT, NO EFFECT, MIGHT AS WELL JUST GONNA COOK SOME CAKE WITH ALL THESE USELESS SEEDS FOR IFTAR, FAHK!

 

[draculic acid69]

have access on 2kg of poppy seeds.

Was planning to use 1 kg, 500g to each on 1L water bottle, wash it with water, then filter it with coffee filter then pour it into pyrex glass to evaporate on oven on 50C so the waters eventually turns to

resins for type of 'putty' for dabs or on foil for smokeable form.

on this process, i was informed that boiling the water might degrade some of alkaloids so i was going to skip through boiling process before pouring the washed water into pyrex glass but reading through some of post suggested at least heating

up to medium hot will decrease the water volume and filtering the waters multiple time is also suggested.

My question is, all the multiple filtering and boiling the water to reduce the amount of water is necessarily or will it be fine to just wash it down, filter it with coffe filter and pour it into pyrex to oven on 50C until i can scrape up the residue will do the job?

If u boil a pot of water and tip the poppyseed water into a thin stainless steel bowl and place it on top it should keep the temp below 100'c so there will be minimal degradation if any from the heat.it can never get too hot this way and it evaps fairly fast.ive also heard that doing this you'll have a lot of fats and oils that look like long white streaks come out of the liquid as it evaps down and you have to remove them by scooping it out. I've smoked the resulting product and while strong and instantly kicking in it also gave me a headache from all the other leftover shit in it.but do it and let us know how it goes