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Effects of the racetam nootropics on SSRI-induced receptor downregulation

Vastness

Vastness

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More specifically: Anyone like to guess what the effects would be of taking any of the racetams (such as piracetam, etc) on a serotonergic recreational drug given that some receptor downregulation (induced tolerance, I assume) from SSRI therapy has occured?

I ask because a friend of mine is on SSRIs (Sertraline) which I'm aware makes using any drugs acting on the serotonin system rather pointless. Unfortunately, this rules out pretty much all the good ones - MD-amphetamines, tryptamine and phenethylamine psychedelics, um, maybe some more.

It's also these drugs specifically which are supposedly most potentiated by the racetam nootropics, a class of drugs who's mechanism of action is still somewhat uncertain, as far as I'm aware. Given this, I know that any answers will be guesses unless someone has had or knows someone who has had personal experience doing the sort of thing I'm asking about.

More specifically, again, is it possible that one of the racetams could be used to cut short the time that SSRIs would need to be abstained from before the full (or close enough to full) effects of one of the aforementioned serotonergic drug could be felt?

Even if this is not the case, would anyone with more knowledge of neuropharmacology than me like to guess what might happen, if anything? I'd be interested to hear anything about the possible interaction between these chemicals really.



It's not vitally important of course that my friend be able to experience any of the better drugs while undergoing SSRI therapy, it would just be nice if it was possible somehow. A 2 week period of abstinence to do 1 drug doesn't strike me as a realistic solution, given the conditions SSRIs are used to treat.

Also, please, I'm not interested in hearing about what a bad idea it is to temporarily discontinue SSRI treatment to do recreational drugs, so don't bother responding if it's just to say that. I already know, and we are both well informed enough to understand the risks.
 
Clearly you are not as well informed as you think you are. It is basic knowledge that the racetams plus 5-ht psychs are a highly unpredictable combination that could very well be dangerous. Do you really need to induce more neuroplastic change and fuck with your brain on top of all the rewiring happening because of SSRIs? I think it is a horrible idea that can potentially threaten your friends mental health in the long term, it is not really worth combining these drugs when baseline let alone while under the influence of SSRIs. This combination is uncharted territory so if he insists on being the guinnie pig then please report back with the effects and preferable a TR.
 
As there is a topic like this, I might as well ask if anyone knows how does piracetam interact with SSRIs alone. Does anyone? (I've been taking this combination for 2-3 months already and I'm fine, but I'm curious if something I'm not noticing now might happen becasue of it)
 
Yes, any information at all about interaction between racetams and SSRIs would be welcomed.

theWorldWithin, I think you're overstating the dangers a little.

Anyway I guess the lack of replies so far means everyone has pretty much no idea. Once again, even just a guess from someone with some one with some neuropharmacological knowledge would be appreciated...
 
My own guess: the potentiating effect of a racetam should counteract the dulling effect that SSRIs have to some extent, right? But the character of the experience will probably change somewhat as well.

Or, the SSRIs effect on receptors will simply overpower the racetam's ability to potentiate. I'd say this is more likely than the converse, yes?
 
I've read them, I know there's potentiation but I still say he's exagerrating.

Piracetam is a notoriously nontoxic chemical. My friend is not going to die, and will be in a safe environment and well looked after. SSRIs have persistent enough effects that a short break should not completely reverse the benefits. Most likely the worst that could happen is an unexpectedly intense trip, but as the intention is counteracting the psychoanaesthetic effects of SSRIs this would probably be welcomed.

No need to panic.
 
Vastness said:
Or, the SSRIs effect on receptors will simply overpower the racetam's ability to potentiate. I'd say this is more likely than the converse, yes?
Click to expand...

This is what I've found in personal experience. I'm not on "SSRIs" exactly - mirtazapine and venlafaxine. While I do find the 'racetams to have a generally noticible effect I didn't notice much difference between MDMA dosing with or without piracetam whilst on ADs. I did not discontinue my AD use in either "trial" though :)

Sorry, only an anecdotal report, nothing scientific.
 
i read somewhere that piracetam inhibits CYP2D6, which metabolises most of the SSRIs, that might explain the potentiation?
 
piracetam is reported to potentiate MDMA, just a gues that it may make your brain more sensitive to serotonin, wheter this is a good thing when taking an SSRI i'm not sure off

there just isnt enough information how both substances really work
 
Hey man, has your frind tried these drugs on SSRI's? I am not informed at all on the risks but I know its supposed to reduce effect.
One friend of mine is on Zoloft which I believe is an SSRI, when we are taking ecstasy very occasionally he will buy a pill. He can ping all night off a pill taken in quarters if not smaller amounts throughout the night. Usually snorted but sometimes orally. He acts differently to most people on pills sort of, its hard to explain but swears hes high.
I am unsure if he has experienced ecstasy before taking Zoloft but he has been taking Zoloft for some time.
He also occasionall uses methamphetamine with us and gets charged up off smaller amounts than everyone else, but not relatively tiny amounts as he does off pills. He also has ADD and took ritalin for years but has stopped now.
I know SSRI's are supposed to reduce effects of these drugs and as I said I don't know the risks but this is my friends experience on these drugs.
 
I had a friend on Zoloft (24 year old female, in perfect health). She wanted to roll. I gave her a preload of a High Potency B-complex, and 1600MG of Piracetam, knowing that it would not hurt. At the time, I did not think she would be able to roll, but from what I knew and understood about Piracetam, I made an educated guess (YES, I know how bad this sounds) that she might feel something. An hour later she ingested 125 MG of MDMA. An hour later she was FACED. She came up to me and asked how it worked. She stated she did not know this was possible. She'd taken MDMA before, and had only been able to feel a little bit, even with a full dose. I could not provide an answer..... I was completely and utterly FLOORED (so was she, though not in the way I was...LOL), and SHOCKED that it did this. Apparently, through whatever mysterious mechanism, it appears to either cancel out the SSRI, or negate it's effects temporarily to allow the effects of the MDxx substance to be felt.

I do not know the reasons for this, but I figured I would share this, since it has happened in others.

She had virtually no comedown, and the next day, she took her morning dose of SSRI, and went to sleep. She reported having NO problems, other than an afterglow that lasted for about a week.

I'm completely floored. If this is indeed not a fluke, this is incredibly interesting. We've got something here that can cancel out or inhibit the effects of SSRI's (even if only temporarily)?!?

and to drug_mentor:

I know that the SSRI has little to no effect on the dopamine levels in the brain. Did your friend give you a description of any kind as to what he was feeling?
 
Yeah sort of, he just acts fucking like hes fucked up on drugs, he always takes the same pillsas us and has had varying contents from speed bombs to piperazines to MDA and MDMA etc.
Just last night we got some "green diamonds", here in melbourne australia atm all the diamond pills are rated high MDMA. I doubled em and they were definately a good dose of MDMA maybe a little speed. To start off the night he snorted like a quarter of a bic, maybe a little more and was off chops. The rest of the bic brok into like 3 or 4 tiny chunks which he kept topping himself up with throughout the night. He just acts out of it talking shit mainly but does exhibit signs of bein on ecstasy such as pupil dilation and nystagmus and some behaviours.
He also consumes alot of alcohol everytime he takes the shit without fail, as he is a heavy drinker but all I know is he has been on SSRI's for years and is the most sensitive person to pills I know.
 
Is it possible that the potentiating effects are stronger than the SSRIs? Could the potentiation break through the SSRI?
 
I dig this up again, to ask does anyone have experience of using piracetam while being on ssri daily medication. What i have read it might be dangerous somehow, but as science these things seems to change occasionally. No one is not going to do more damage to their head, but piracetam would be great effect on daily function, but the combination with these two might not be safe.
 
Search for SSRI (and other AD's) and Racetam combinations,they synergise well and are prescribed together!
 
I've tried combination of paroxetine (don't remember exact dose, one tablet) and piracetam (800mg.), and I can say it was one horrible experience! Terrible anxiety, hands shaking, nausea, change of color perception. For first 1-2 hours after effects kicked in I was quite agitated, but then agitation droped off (but no anxiety though), after that I fall in very disturbed sleep for the next 16 hours or so. Effects were fully dropped of only next evening.
But I'm not prescribed to paroxetine or any other SSRI.
Two weeks after, my friend, who was prescribed to it due to her depressive state (for two-three months) tried to combine her standard dose with 800mg. of piracetam, and she was experienced exactly same effects with less anxiety reaction.
Does not have any ideas about mechanism of such strange interaction. :(
 
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