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Misc Effective GABA agonists for social anxiety? (Not benzos/G)

jamesBrown said:
for what purpose?
i see no recreational value here so im assuming you are talking about how effective it is at treating depression, anxiety, etc...

...that i do not know, but i just read on wikipedia that it is used in combination with oral DMT in order to inhibit the enzymes that break the DMT down, consequently resulting in heightened effects I would assume.
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Just for the treatment of social anxiety. Maybe not the best place to ask. :) I'm aware of it's use with oral DMT, hence the reason I already have some.
 
GABA Supplements

GABA Supplements: vitamin B6
While drugs alter or potentiate the GABA receptor, they do not add any GABA to the system. Drugs rely on a sufficient supply of endogenous GABA in the brain to function properly. However, due to factors like diet, stress, and genetics, a healthy supply of GABA may not be available.

Gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) is a non-essential amino acid formed from glutamic acid with the help of "vitamin B6". GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) is found in almost every region of brain, and is formed through the activity of the enzyme glutamic acid decarboxylase (GAD). GAD catalyzes the formation of GABA from glutamic acid. GAD requires vitamin B6 (pyridoxal phosphate) as a cofactor, which can be used to regulate the levels of GABA

Taurine
Taurine is an amino acid that is present at significant levels in the CNS and is positive modulator of GABA that does not have any adverse side-effects. Taurine also potentiates glycine - the inhibitory neurotransmitter in the spinal cord.

The role of taurine as an inhibitory amino acid has been confirmed in many studies. Not surprisingly, brain tissue and cardiac tissue, which are susceptible to high levels of neurotransmitter stimulation, maintain high levels of taurine. Taurine has been shown to prevent the neuronal damage that can occur when there is an exposure to increased levels of the excitatory neurotransmitter glutamate. Over stimulation by excitatory neurotransmitters is the primary cause of neuron death in ischemic stroke. Taurine has been found to significantly reduce neuron death caused by over stimulation.

The calming effects of taurine have been well studied. Other studies of taurine have found that it can reduce epileptic seizures and that low taurine levels are associated with anxiety.

Glutamine
Glutamine is an amino acid and a common precursor for the biosynthesis of GABA and glutamate. Significant quantities of glutamine are normally present in the brain to support the complex process of GABA synthesis. Those with high Glutamate levels should not supplement with Glutamine.

5-HTP
Serotonin is a neurotransmitter, or more correctly a neuromodulator, that is widely distributed throughout the brain and generally enhances GABA and therefore has inhibitory activity. Therefore, as a precursor to serotonin, 5-HTP can further increase the activity of GABA. Low serotonin levels are frequently an underlying component of many clinical conditions that are also related to GABA function, e.g. insomnia, depression, & anxiety.
Neurotransmitter tests show that GABA needs serotonin to function properly. Normally, GABA increases and acts through a negative feedback mechanism to reduce elevated excitatory neurotransmitters. However, this feedback mechanism requires the neuromodulating effects of serotonin. This is evident in patients with symptoms related to low GABA who have adequate GABA levels but low serotonin.

Theanine
Theanine is another amino acid that affects GABA. Initial interest in theanine arose due to the seemingly paradoxical calming effect of a caffeine containing drink. Theanine is a naturally occurring amino acid present at significant levels in green tea leaves and is the component responsible for this reaction.

Theanine has been found to alter glutamate transport and actually increase GABA levels. Further studies reveal that theanine reduces hypertension in models of hypertension, increases the effectiveness of some chemotherapy compounds, reduces the stimulatory effect of caffeine, and calms patients.

Food Sources of GABA Gamma Amino

Fish especially Mackrel Wheat Bran

Check out Travacor, a GABA supplement that contains Taurine, 5-HTP, and Theanine!
 
this is just me but for anxiety i'd use pot. every time smoke im just carefree (i suffer from depression and ocd/gad). i also take 1mg of risperidone daily as a calmative and IMO it works wonders on anxiety (feel free to disagree because its an antipsychotic). benzo's, alcohol, g, lyrica, and everything else is addicting and will affect your judgement, coordination, etc. like someone else above me said, a beta blocker can help as well (propanolol). then again i've also heard that adrenergic agonists help with that too as they act as mild sedatives (clonidine). theres a lot of non-addicting substances you can take, you just have to look for what works best for you.
 
Hmm, well as GABA goes, Neurontin (SP?) is pretty nice for anxiety. I took some today and I am feeling prettty slowwww
 
All the effective GABAergics have the same problems with tolerance and dependence when used for long enough and almost all are controlled. Benzos, barbs, carbs, GHB, methaqualone etc all have the same problems with treating social anxiety and your doctor won't prescribe any of them so there aren't really any legal options available and it sounds like you wouldn't want to try any of them anyway because most are more addictive than GHB.
 
Cane2theLeft said:
^no, it probably won't. Anxiety is complex psychological dysfunction and not just too much of one neurotransmitter or not enough of another.
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This is complete bullshit.

The roots of anxiety can equally be as simple as they are complex. There are people who suffer from oversensitized adrenal glands from stimulant abuse or are simply born that way and go much of their lives taking countless psych meds when a med like inderal can remove nearly all of their anxiety (which is what you were talking about for other readers too lazy to go back).

You saying "anxiety is complex" is as right as me saying "suicide is complex".
CAN IT BE complex? Sure. Can it also be extremely simple? Of course. I'm one person who benefits 100% from inderal alone and it DOES have psychological effects although inderal by itself does not. Almost like codiene is worthless w/out a liver, inderal is worthless w/out adrenal glands. But if adrenaline DOES cause psychological effects, and inderal directly impacts adrenaline, then inderal IS having an indirect impact on someones psychological anxiety.

Now if your anxiety is caused by a lack of seretonin, dopamine, or endorphins, then of course inderal will likely do little for your brain at all. But if your anxiety is caused by an overresponse of adrenaline, trust me when I say you will psychologically feel calmer, as well as having most of your physical anxiety totally floored.
Don't assume other peoples anxiety is "complex" just because yours is. All I have to do is take an inderal as needed and I'm fine. My anxiety is simple. Other people have no idea what is causing their anxiety, and your response only applies to them. But speaking in absolute terms like that is never a smart thing. What if the OP had a history of meth abuse and had altered his adrenal glands to overrespond? Then he threw the inderal away because of what you wrote? He could have gone his entire life ignoring the one med he needed the most.
 
RacerAtom said:
For those interested, studies have shown that a number of neurotransmitter dysfunctions are involved in social anxiety, including low levels of GABA and high levels of glutamate, inhibitory and excitatory neurotransmitters respectively.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18206286

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16400245

http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/nurx/article/PIIS1545534305000064/abstract

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16377928
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These examples theorize problematic glutamatergic and GABAergic functioning due to response to specific compounds so that demonstrates a likely correlation between levels of those neurotransmitters and anxiety but not causation.

Excellent abstracts though. While people can certainly benefit from further neurochemical research into anxiety, I worry that further 'medicalizing' will lead people away from treatments that can provide more sustainable benefit and less (or no) side effects... treatments such as CBT for example but that's only one example among many.

Bojangles69 said:
This is complete bullshit.

The roots of anxiety can equally be as simple as they are complex. There are people who suffer from oversensitized adrenal glands from stimulant abuse or are simply born that way and go much of their lives taking countless psych meds when a med like inderal can remove nearly all of their anxiety (which is what you were talking about for other readers too lazy to go back).

You saying "anxiety is complex" is as right as me saying "suicide is complex".
CAN IT BE complex? Sure. Can it also be extremely simple? Of course. I'm one person who benefits 100% from inderal alone and it DOES have psychological effects although inderal by itself does not. Almost like codiene is worthless w/out a liver, inderal is worthless w/out adrenal glands. But if adrenaline DOES cause psychological effects, and inderal directly impacts adrenaline, then inderal IS having an indirect impact on someones psychological anxiety.

Now if your anxiety is caused by a lack of seretonin, dopamine, or endorphins, then of course inderal will likely do little for your brain at all. But if your anxiety is caused by an overresponse of adrenaline, trust me when I say you will psychologically feel calmer, as well as having most of your physical anxiety totally floored.
Don't assume other peoples anxiety is "complex" just because yours is. All I have to do is take an inderal as needed and I'm fine. My anxiety is simple. Other people have no idea what is causing their anxiety, and your response only applies to them. But speaking in absolute terms like that is never a smart thing. What if the OP had a history of meth abuse and had altered his adrenal glands to overrespond? Then he threw the inderal away because of what you wrote? He could have gone his entire life ignoring the one med he needed the most.
Click to expand...

First off no need to be adversarial! I wasn't intending any offense so if any was conveyed I apologize. Next, I don't have any anxiety disorders, so I wasn't speaking about my personal experience; I was speaking based on other people's experiences that I've read, my education in psychology and counseling and personal interest and education in the matter. Of course, I'm human so I'm quite fallible.

I wasn't trying to say EVERY PERSON who has anxiety experiences this as a result of a complex process. Due to human psychological functioning, looking at anxiety as a whole IS complex. If we assume that one person's anxiety is a result of excess glutamate, then the physical effects of this will undoubtedly have psychological impact. Conditioning will occur that results in avoidance of certain events that are or are perceived to be anxiogenic. This will result in potentially drastically altering many facets of an individuals life and so simply addressing the chemical imbalance although helpful, will often be insufficient to "undo" all that anxiety has caused an individual if the problem was severe.

This isn't the case for everyone of course but due to the multitude of experiences people have and the various factors at play in the development, maintenance and treatment of anxiety, looking at anxiety AS A WHOLE is complex and rather variable, as you've demonstrated.

What I was mainly warning against was believing or implying that there was a simple known neurochemical cause and solution for anxiety for all people.

GABA functioning has been implicated in anxiety as well as glutamine/glutamate activity, adrenaline/noradrenaline activity, and this is separate from the various psychological processes causing and being affected by anxiety that people experience.

I don't have any anxiety disorders and its not ever been problematic enough to be considered any diagnosable conditions, but due to one experience I had, public speaking became quite anxiogenic for me.

With every speech I made in public, I became more and more nervous because I worried myself into somatic effects, namely sweating and my leg shaking. I took various beta blockers for a couple of speeches and this prevented the somatic effects of the anxiety and I was able to reassure myself that I was able to speak in public. Since these handful of experiences, I've been able to successfully speak in public to various audiences without the sweating and shaking.

Did I have some kind of adrenergic imbalance? No... perhaps you do, I can't know that. But the presence of specific symptoms and amelioration of those symptoms alone doesn't demonstrate a causative link to chemical imbalance.

__________________

EDIT:

I never advised anyone to throw away a pill and I'm not sure how you or anyone would believe what I said to convey that. I think beta blockers are an excellent treatment for many people with heavily somatic anxiety presentations but often people require or would benefit from addressing the impact their anxiety has had on cognitive functioning, emotions, behavior, their social life, etc.
 
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