Misc Effective GABA agonists for social anxiety? (Not benzos/G)

[ugh1979]

I'm currently trying to discover and try out meds/drugs that act as a GABA agonist (GABAa and or GABAb, not sure what's best for me yet.)

I've been taking Phenibut (a GABAb agonist) once or twice a week to great effect for my social anxiety for the last 2 months but am fully aware of the tolerance issue so I don't take it more often than that. That means I have another 5/6 days a week where my GABA levels are low and i'm trying to find something to at least plug some of that gap and give me more days with no or low social anxiety.

My experience with Phenibut has proved to me that low GABA levels are why I suffer from social anxiety as when I take it my symptoms are much relieved. (My previous like/use of GHB/GBL would also indicate this but I don't take them any more for other reasons)

My psychiatrist won't prescribe me benzo's so they are off the cards, and she was unsure of my suggestions of Baclofen (which is very much like Phenibut) or Pregabalin which I believe acts to raise GABA levels in a different way (more like how alcohol does?), due to them not being approved in the UK for treatment of anxiety.

I've learned today that Zopiclone and the other z-drugs have a benzo like agonist function on GABAa so may be of some use as an anxiolytic but i've also read many reports that they are not that great for that purpose. Some good reports as well though so I will try it as I have Zopiclone at home which I only ever use occasionally to get me to sleep.

Anyway, any further info on GABA agonist meds and drugs very welcome.

 

[villian]

i mean your options for gaba drugs are basically: benzos, alcohol, g, phenibut, baclofen, picamilon, barbs or methaqualone

neurontin and lyrica work somehow regarding gaba but I don't have any personal experience with them or know their exact mechanism of action, but they might be worth looking into

 

[homeydontplaythat]

lyrica works FUCKING AMAZINGLY for anxiety and depression. the problem is that it stops working after about 2 months of daily use. im talking about prescribed dosages too, not abusing it in insane doses.

im taking a break from it right now in hopes that it works again. benzos are the only fucking thing that are used effectivley for anxiety. everything else is a second best. the problem of course with benzos is they are addictive, tolerances raises, and you may end up crashing your car if you take too much.

therefore i would go with lyrica for sure. you are going to have to moderate the use though. like maybe 3 or 4 times a week. even then you will have to take a break for maybe a week or so at the end of 2 months,

right now im actually considering a benzo to take while i wait for lyrica to work again. im not sure if it will work again. the shit not only stopped working but made me feel worse recently. so fucking irritable and spaced out its crazy.

i just hope it works again. its a miracle drug compared to xanax

 

[adder]

Pregabalin might be a drug to try as you're at less risk to develop addiction than with benzodiazepines. But to be honest every drug available as a GABA agonist/modulator carries a risk of getting addicted.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Your logic is flawed- just because taking GABA agonists (raising GABA levels) reduces your anxiety, does not mean that low GABA is the cause of your anxiety.

I have chronic pain and taking opioids and participating in activities that increase endorphin production reduce my pain but that doesn't mean my pain is caused by low endorphins and not the nerve damage in my leg.

I also second the gabapentin/pregabalin path. Its a demonstrably effective anxiolytic and has far fewer drawbacks than alternatives such as benzodiazepines.

Depression is THEORIZED (never proven) to be a result of low 5HT levels but I have not seen the same claims about anxiety and GABA and even if that's theorized, its likely impossible to prove at this point.

The reason I want to warn you about trying to 'medicalize' the problem and see it as a function of faulty neurotransmitters, is that pattern of thought will lead you to seek a medical solution or a pill to cure it and no matter what you try, you'll be disappointed.

Anxiety is generally a result of conditioning and other complex psychological processes and as such, the best way to treat it is by addressing it as a psychological problem and not a medical one. Taking pharmaceutical anxiolytics for short-term relief is fine (and possibly beneficial) but near universally unsustainable and your best bet is to pursue alternative treatments such as Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy that help you to assess what is causing the anxiety for you and how YOU can cope with it, if not more-or-less get over it.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

pregabalin is incredible for anxiety, its better than benzos. benzos dont poop out though.

 

[ugh1979]

Thanks for the suggestions people. Hopefully my psych will have come round to prescribing me pregabalin by the next time we meet. She did say she would look into it more.

 

[ugh1979]

Your logic is flawed- just because taking GABA agonists (raising GABA levels) reduces your anxiety, does not mean that low GABA is the cause of your anxiety.

I have chronic pain and taking opioids and participating in activities that increase endorphin production reduce my pain but that doesn't mean my pain is caused by low endorphins and not the nerve damage in my leg.

I also second the gabapentin/pregabalin path. Its a demonstrably effective anxiolytic and has far fewer drawbacks than alternatives such as benzodiazepines.

Depression is THEORIZED (never proven) to be a result of low 5HT levels but I have not seen the same claims about anxiety and GABA and even if that's theorized, its likely impossible to prove at this point.

The reason I want to warn you about trying to 'medicalize' the problem and see it as a function of faulty neurotransmitters, is that pattern of thought will lead you to seek a medical solution or a pill to cure it and no matter what you try, you'll be disappointed.

Anxiety is generally a result of conditioning and other complex psychological processes and as such, the best way to treat it is by addressing it as a psychological problem and not a medical one. Taking pharmaceutical anxiolytics for short-term relief is fine (and possibly beneficial) but near universally unsustainable and your best bet is to pursue alternative treatments such as Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy that help you to assess what is causing the anxiety for you and how YOU can cope with it, if not more-or-less get over it.

Sorry I should have said, in the last 2 years I've already been down the 1st line routes of SSRI's (3 types) and CBT, all of which failed miserably, so when I discovered Phenibut and how well it worked it got me very interested in meds which work on GABA.

I'm certainly not ruling out returning to CBT once I find a med I'm happy with so then I can try and form some permanent improvement.

 

[jamesBrown]

My experience with Phenibut has proved to me that low GABA levels are why I suffer from social anxiety as when I take it my symptoms are much relieved. (My previous like/use of GHB/GBL would also indicate this but I don't take them any more for other reasons)

Im not so sure that the fact that phenibut relieves your anxiety symptoms is proof that your GABA levels are low. Even if your social anxiety was a result of something unrelated to your GABA levels, phenibut can still help your anxiety, meaning, you dont necessarily have low GABA levels.
Just like clonazepam can be used to treat anxiety(which is the reason its prescribed for me) even though it may actually in some individuals be lowering your blood pressure, relieving stress on a damaged heart, which is what caused the person to think they had anxiety in the first place(heart/chest pain whenever you are in social situations or any type of stressfull situation because it causes raised blood pressure and a faster heart beat). So, the clonazepam still helped the persons symptoms of "anxiety"(heart/chest pain and high BP) but it wasnt because of the reason they thought.

I could be wrong though, just a thought. When I saw you make that deduction about you having low GABA levels I decided to chime in. Maybe you should have them checked by a doctor so you know for sure what your dealing with.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^if you look above, I made the same comment on his logic... Also afaik, there isn't a medical test for GABA levels. Even if there was, that would only demonstrate likely correlation and not necessarily causation.

 

[ugh1979]

Im not so sure that the fact that phenibut relieves your anxiety symptoms is proof that your GABA levels are low. Even if your social anxiety was a result of something unrelated to your GABA levels, phenibut can still help your anxiety, meaning, you dont necessarily have low GABA levels.
Just like clonazepam can be used to treat anxiety(which is the reason its prescribed for me) even though it may actually in some individuals be lowering your blood pressure, relieving stress on a damaged heart, which is what caused the person to think they had anxiety in the first place(heart/chest pain whenever you are in social situations or any type of stressfull situation because it causes raised blood pressure and a faster heart beat). So, the clonazepam still helped the persons symptoms of "anxiety"(heart/chest pain and high BP) but it wasnt because of the reason they thought.

I could be wrong though, just a thought. When I saw you make that deduction about you having low GABA levels I decided to chime in. Maybe you should have them checked by a doctor so you know for sure what your dealing with.

Point taken and I'll certainly keep it in mind.

Related to what you said, I've been prescribed the beta-blocker propranolol until my psych gets back to me about pregabalin so that should provide me with some more information on the cause of the social anxiety.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^no, it probably won't. Anxiety is complex psychological dysfunction and not just too much of one neurotransmitter or not enough of another.

 

[ugh1979]

^no, it probably won't. Anxiety is complex psychological dysfunction and not just too much of one neurotransmitter or not enough of another.

Well knowing to some degree of how much my mental anxiety is caused by the physical symptoms of anxiety will be of some benefit I'd say.

As you say though things aren't quite as black and white with simple cause/effects and treatments as I'd hoped and I take that point on board.

 

[shootingmyself]

I'm prescribed neurontin and it helps a ton with my anxiety. It even cut out most of the anxiety I feel when WDing off opiates.

 

[duneplanet]

hey how long have you guys been on lyrica? does it still work for you guys after a long period of time?

also kava kava, although weak compared to the others, works ok with zero withdrawal. valerian is too weak for me it doesnt help. its good your doc isnt giving you benzos, you dont wanna be like me man. ive been feeling withdrawal for 4 months now and it is getting worse. ia lso take phenibut wiace a week and it does wonders. im on lyrica still but it isnt helping like it used to, though I bet my benzo withdrawal would bea thousand times worse without it.

 

[homeydontplaythat]

ive been on it 2 months. it does NOT work for me anymore. im trying to wait and see if it will again after some abstience.

kava does help but not as much as a benzo. i hate living with this shit. not being able to make eye contact with people and generally feeling shy or weird just sucks. im 30 yrs old and the 2 months i was on lyrica were the best of my ENTIRE LIFE. if i have to go on a benzo i will. i just dont want to get addicted and get all fucking drugged up and stupid like i usually do with xanax and shit.

i think i may be able to use a benzo to cycle off lyrica in preventing tolerance, what do you think

eg

1 week klonopin 3 weeks lyrica over and over.??????????

 

[axe battler]

Also, won't any drugs that stimulate the GABA receptors have some sort of cross tolerance; meaning that simply switching between such drugs won't avoid problems with dependence and dose escalation.

I'm not a doctor but I think this is right. I think maybe working on the issues may be better than relying on drugs, although they can be very handy!

 

[Supeudol]

I have reasons to believe that I suffer with low GABA levels as well, I mean, compared to other people.
GABA-B Agonists seem to work the fastest, and the best, its a shame they are so addicting. GHB is a wonder substance for relieving short term anxiety of any sort, it gets bad when you get into a dosing period of every 4 hours or so. Pregabalin is alright, but I wouldn't say its a "Miracle drug for anxiety and depression". In no way Pregabalin is a miracle drug, its very effective for treating fibromyalgia, and other nerve pain. I wouldn't say its a wonder drug for anxiety though.

 

[ugh1979]

Has anyone tried Moclobemide?

 

[jamesBrown]

Has anyone tried Moclobemide?

for what purpose?
i see no recreational value here so im assuming you are talking about how effective it is at treating depression, anxiety, etc...

...that i do not know, but i just read on wikipedia that it is used in combination with oral DMT in order to inhibit the enzymes that break the DMT down, consequently resulting in heightened effects I would assume.