Bupe effect on length of suboxone use and probability of precipitated wd's

[Hammilton]

I believe this is a unique question, and though I could not find another thread on the subject I think it has to have occurred to someone. If I'm wrong, please let me know, and I apologise, I know there have been many, many threads on precipitated withdrawal and suboxone and I do hate to add another one!

I'm wondering how the length of time one has been on suboxone and the likelihood that they will experience pw upon returning to suboxone.

Say I am a daily user of suboxone, not a stretch as I am. Now, say I have three bags of heroin. At 24 hours after my last dose I snort one bag of decent dope. I experience mild opiate effects, most prominently, itching. No euphoria is noted (when I had been off subs for a week one bag had me feeling very good). At 48 hours I decide to try again. This dope isn't as good, but isn't bad either per non suboxone using friends. I snort two bags and experience stronger opiate effects, more sedation, slight warmness, itching. Not high by any means, subs probably would have had a stronger effect on me, but it satisfied my desire for a while. It has zero legs, though, and within an hour I'm back to baseline except for the itching.

Say I take 3mg per day of suboxone when I take it.

Now, being that the suboxone was never fully out of my system, and actually, one half life hasn't even passed, is there any real danger of experiencing pw' s from a break like this?


Consider it this way: if someone has a short relapse to their drug of choice while already on suboxone long term, do they need to wait until they're in moderate withdrawal before going back on suboxone, or is the buprenorphine in your system slowly displacing the heroin from the receptors over time?

I'm not going to take subs again before 18 hours from my last heroin use, so I think I'd be in the clear no matter what, but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with going back and forth like this. It's not something I've done it plan to do, but I happened across three bags and there was no way I could keep them long. I should have waited longer without the suboxone before doing it, because I could have gotten proper high, instead the subs have blocked 75 to 90 percent off it, which I didn't expect from such a low dose.

 

[RTrain]

I've read some similar questions, but they are more in regards to someone who just got on Subs and it didn't help enough so they did up some dope of oxy, then were less than pleased and wanted to know how long to wait to take Subs again. In that case I would at least wait until I was feeling pretty sick again. I think in the case you mention it shouldn't really matter when you take the Subs, if you did dope for the first time in a while its not really what you are currently dependent on. So even if you take it while the dope is still active, ripping it off the receptors at that time isn't going to shock the system. Its just going to put you were you usually are, back on Subs. Thing is, if you push it a bit to long, like using for 2 full days or more, your body might readjust to the dope and you are then gonna want to wait it out. Also if you are using for 2 or more days then the Sub is going to diminish, so there really won't be any left to displace the heroin at that point.

At the worst if you do a couple bags one night then you should be fine the next morning. That how I try to work it out, usually its around 10 hours after when I take the Subs again.

Also, interesting you mention the itching, because I have noticed intense itching when I have switched back to dope from long stints (being 10 days plus, my perception of a long time, sadly) on Suboxone or used dope for night. Naturally all these times I have had some Sub in my system, most likely 2 mg taken around 12 hours prior. I notice the itching particularly when I am going to bed, laying there just frantically scratching myself. Even by the next day I am no longer getting the itchiness, just seems that first night with some bupe in the system. Could just be that it only takes a night before my tolerance jacks right back up, but its hard to say. I feel like right now, currently using H, it doesn't matter how much I do, there still will be no itch.