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Ecstasy - Will it be replaced?

Reminisant B

Reminisant B

Greenlighter
Joined
Nov 3, 2005
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I know I should probably post this in the entactogens of the future thread but I thought it deserved its own one.

Does anyone really think there will be a replacement for MDMA?

With the exception of for example MDE, Cathinone derivatives, etc as they are very similar chemically.

I mean a new compound, of completely different chemical structure that will end up in the every club round the world. A drug that a considerable amount of people will look back and be reminded of good memories not of addiction and sadness. As for Psycadelics they can be incredibly beneficial but they are very dependant on setting, comfort with the surrounding and friends.

GHB, Ketamine, low dose psychadelics are certainly used in some places but I can't really think of a drug that has gone round the world in such vast quantities whilst also being (in most cases) such a pro-social drug (Methamphetamine, cocaine, heroin - can generalise, I realise not in all cases, to anti-social) It also has to be said MDMA is no perfect drug, not trying to trivialise it but Supply/Demand has shown it to be popular.

Do you think there will eventually be a replacement or will ecstacy always be the most used "love" drug?

Do you think there are compounds possible that have no PEA in their structure that can compete with MDMX?
 
Well, since it's kinetics are known, I would think yes. MDA was around in the 60s but it took a while for people to find MDMA. IAP with speed is cited as a near-as-dammit alternative but I can imagine 3 benzofuran rings connected to piperidine rings (OK somewhat similar) being popular.
 
Do you think there are compounds possible that have no PEA in their structure that can compete with MDMX?
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Well AET has quite pronounced entactogenic properties and even AMT shows some such activity at the beginning of it's action & they're not PEAs (technically I suppose you'd call them IEAs - indolethylamines). Breaking down the actions of MDMA into individual areas of activity you require a couple of properties;

1) for a drug that causes serotonin efflux & inhibits reuptake. The best way of acheiving this is for something that causes the SERT to run in reverse

2) for a drug that inhibits the DAT preventing reuptake of dopamine.

Now until it's possible to determine a detailed pharmacophore for a compound with the above properties (well not technically a pharmacophore but both pharmacophores (reversing SERT & inhibiting DAT), it might just occur that someone comes up with a combination of compounds that produces a better version of the entactogen response of MDMA.

Of course the problem there is that you're having to deal with the side effects of two or more drugs, but man is a resourceful creature so I wouldn't rule that out at all. After all, through the most basic '1 + 1 = 2' type of application I discovered that IAP + amphetamine gives a good approximation of MDA; even a bit of a step forward of sorts as there's no crippling depression 2-3 days later from that combo - something that keeps me from using methylenedioxy entactogens. Finding drugs that have a much narrower, more targeted pharmacological response (amphetamine is like using a blunderbus for target shooting!) will produce a better response overall.

Sadly, the requirements for entactogenic activity create conditions that are potentially neurotoxic (serotonogic neurones reuptake dopamine when the drug action wanes, resulting in a chain of events that leads to damage). Countering this would be much more worthwile to all concerned rather than looking for better entactogens that still result in neurotoxicity IMHO
 
Yeah except for the weed addicts who steal and hock (you cannot say it doesnt happen) and bludge off welfare their entire lives.
 
^ That weed isn't harmful rubbish annoys me greatly. Go into any mental hospital in the UK and you will find many a person who has gone over the edge because of it. I happen to know someone who cut 3 of his fingers off because he became unstable smoking weed chronically. I know people say 'predisposition to schizophrenia' and all but the fact remains he wouldn't have done it had it not been for weed.

Sorry for bing off topic.

I think methylone has a great future, especially for people who have things to do the next day!

Also some of these furan analogs, such as the one F&B posted a trip report for (not his report).
 
I agree that the weed is not nearly as harmless as most people think it is. I personally happen to think that Ketamine is less harmful than weed, but thats just me ;)

I think Methylone may become a good candidate for psychotherapy due to its short duration and its relative lack of inhebriation. It certainly is not without negatives, though, and some people like me find it almost impossible to function the next day.

That is not to say that I think MDMA is better. Actually, I think entactogens as a whole are a very poor group. So far, of the several that I've tried, only AMT seems to have any promise in it - then again, AMT is not purely an entactogen, but a powerful psychedelic as well.
 
the replacement for Mdma as a club drug will arrive at some point, have no doubt. though I doubt it will work in the same way ie a dirty, mixed serotonin dopamine releaser combined with 5ht2a agonist. so I suppose it would not strictly be an MDMA substitute rather something different something better which will have a whole new culture built around it.
Nothing out there at the moment, in the open literature or conceivable in the short term such as known compounds IAP MMAI MDAI AET methylone have the potential to do this. and the benzyl and benzhydrol piperidines are reuptake inhibitors not releasers of Dopamine and It doesn't seem likely that the MD versions could interact favourably with SERT or better the storage transporters, MDPV being a case in point, despite being MD subd it interacts almost entirely with the DA system. AET and similar kill people because of MAOI activity, there is no way that tens of millions of dosage units of AET could be consumed with the low levels of casualties associated with MDMA. there are a few compounds which haven't been investigated yet that have the potential to retain much of MDMA's activity, however I suspect that they will not be as pharmacologically dirty as MDMA and the dirty pharmacology of MDMA is at least pertly responsable for the magic.
apologies for just throwing down toughts in no particular order.
V
the replacement club drug would also have to be legal at least initially for its popularity to build and for it to have a major advantage over MDMA.
 
fastandbulbous said:
AET was withdrawn because of cases of fatal agranulocytosis. It's a competetive MAOI so isn't that much of a threat in such cases
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I believe recreational AET has killed due to maoi activity, true monase was withdrawn due to agranulocytosis.
 
fastandbulbous said:
They must have eaten a shitload of the stuff then (then again considering how people make pigs of themselves with MDMA...)
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this is from memory but I believe it was aet in combination with some amphetamine type stimulant, which is definately a bad combination
 
Splatt said:
Yeah except for the weed addicts who steal and hock (you cannot say it doesnt happen) and bludge off welfare their entire lives.
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your'e a real winner, aren't ya8)


anyways, e is being replaced by drugs like k and ghb in the clubs, with prices plunging... of course the price of e is also dropping. but people it is more than economics... old skoolers in the clubs kind of look down on e and people who use it and have a sort of hey that was a couple of years back drug attitude, at any case at clubs/ events/ and raves in general i am seeing a rise in psychedelics which is a good thing cause we can use a paradigm shift...
personally, i still like e, it takes me back to that child like innocence, but i am tired being a kid and i am ready for adulthood and the world

of course, i have no idea what i am talking about:)
 
2cb. Great stimulant. Feels great. Mild psychedelic on lower doses. No physical addiction. No proven toxic effects. No harsh comedown. No fake emotions. No etardness.
 
fwiw, I've been known to crash horrendously after 2cb, particularly @ higher doses.
I actually feel it two days later the most, similar to MDx
 
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