ecstasy isn't as dangerous as we think

[CaliFortunate]

Is there any possibility that because of ecstasy's relatively recent creation and popularity as a drug, that it's danger could be being overstated just because we don't know any better? More specifically that because there just isn't enough clinical and anecdotal evidence ecstasy is at the stage that any drug goes through before the knowledge is out there. I'm thinking of LSD specifically, when they used to say that if you took it 5 times you would go insane, or even farther back when they claimed marijuana would make you crazy.

For the record, at this point I don't roll more than once every 2 months, so I don't want this to become a lecture or advice about how I should heed the rules, because I do. I'm just asking what does everybody think about the possibility that in 30 years all the "neurotoxicity" rhetoric we hear about today will be thought of as nothing more than government propaganda we now consider the old LSD and marijuana "research" to be.

 

[Ringfinger]

As you said we dont know enough about it yet. Evidence does seem to point to some brain damage, some of which can very possibly be permanent. Its obvious some people have been impacted that way, while not at all for others.

I tend to be wary of any synthetic psychoactive acting on the brain. The brain wasnt made to handle it. doesnt mean it cant handle it, but to me it means that it will probably be altered in some way.

 

[WayFarLost]

Everything that a person who doesnt use drugs will tell you about drugs is mostly lies. Pot doesnt make people crazy, lsd doesnt make insane, and ecstasy certainly isnt that dangerous.

 

[LonE1]

It may not be dangerous as in dieing, but it can create extremely bad side effects on the brain and psychologically

 

[MazDan]

Is there any possibility that because of ecstasy's relatively recent creation and popularity as a drug, that it's danger could be being overstated just because we don't know any better?

Did it occur to you that the opposite is true also.

That because we dont know any better, its dangers are being understated.

 

[entheogensmurf]

CaliFortunate,

Is this post seriously your thoughts on this topic?

If it is, either I or someone else will provide links to get you up to date.

 

[keepyourselfalive0]

I probally have some memory probems. I dont remember if i do.

 

[bben]

It's actually likely more dangerous than we think, but more so in a subset of people with a particular genetic makeup. It has the greatest potential of all the drugs for brain damage IMO, but its one of the least lethal.

 

[JBrandon]

@wayfarlost

It really drives me nuts when people post these statistics showing deaths per number of abusers.

I'm being hyperbolic AND NOT REFERRING TO MDMA with this analogy - to me it's like someone defending a drug that would cause you to become permanently brain dead, blind, and fully incapacitated by saying "but it causes zero deaths!"

Death and long-term damage are two completely separate issues.

 

[jsnake]

Low chance of dying, seeing as the OD margin is relatively high, doesn't mean it's healthy. Good chance of fucking your liver and even developing cancer over time, especially if you drink on a roll. Don't know about the neurotoxicity part, but long-term use will obviously deplete your serotonin, especially if you drop in short intervals like every weekend, potentially leading to short-term memory problems or Serotonin Syndrome. Will also down-regulate a few of your serotonin transmitters, making your next buzz a lot more intense (same reason why, over time, people develop irreversible tolerance) Probably make your sex a lot less intense as well when you ain't buzzing, on that topic. That's what we know for certain, off top. Seems to me, short term use is just gonna have a few ups-and-downs, whereas if you constantly drop for 2 years you're gonna start noticing side effects.
The drug itself probably won't kill you, but indirectly may destroy your internal organs or possibly cause a life-threatening condition.

 

[iNOVA]

Everything that a person who doesnt use drugs will tell you about drugs is mostly lies. Pot doesnt make people crazy, lsd doesnt make insane, and ecstasy certainly isnt that dangerous.

ROFL. When you consider how many more people use tobacco the data is bound to look skewed

 

[CaliFortunate]

CaliFortunate,

Is this post seriously your thoughts on this topic?

If it is, either I or someone else will provide links to get you up to date.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. Do I seriously wonder if the current body of research available on ecstasy's damaging effects will end up dated in the future? Well obviously yes, that's why I posed the question. Do you have some sort of time machine to get me "up to date" (to the future?)

 

[jamesmartin]

Everything that a person who doesnt use drugs will tell you about drugs is mostly lies. Pot doesnt make people crazy, lsd doesnt make insane, and ecstasy certainly isnt that dangerous.

Dude I love MDMA just like the next guy but I don't agree at all with what you just said .

Just because something doesn't cause deaths , it doesn't mean it's not dangerous .
MDMA is dangerous if used incorrectley (I.e not allowing your brain enough time to recover ).
I would say a hugeeeee amount of MDMA users don't follow this once a month bluelight rule . This then leads to brain damage which leads to various helth effects.
Every club I have been to , most people who roll in my school , alot of non bluelighter types say
that they use MDMA at least a few times a month .

A huge amount of MDMA users arent like us blighters . They are irresponsible users of the drug .

For example my friend....
He was depressed so he used , then he started to abuse , thing got worse , started to experience
side effects and now he is a mess . His memory is seriously impared , he's seriouly depressed all
the time and had terrible panic attacks . An he doesn't use any other drugs apart from smoking pot once evrything few weeks .

MDMA is not safe . It has terrible side effects. That are SOMETIMES even ireversible .

Another good example from our community is dxmkid

And yeah there is the LSD thing and cannabis myths . But those things have been realized by many that they are not true !
People who use LSD alot compared to others realize that this stuff does not make you jump out of windows . There's clear proof of that .
Same with cannabis . Tonnes o people smoke it an most enjoy it and don't become crazy .

But can you say the same with MDMA ? No . many People use it and expericne horrid depression, anxiety , etc .
Just look at the way MDMA works , it's obviously going to put strain on the brain !! Flooding all
that serotonin leaving the brain short of it, and needing to make more .
Chemical imbalances in the brain have been shown to be bad for the person mentally .


Sorry I'm not hating on you MDMA , I'm just saying What is true .

 

[ASquishyApple]

ROFL. When you consider how many more people use tobacco the data is bound to look skewed

but the pic says "per 100,000 users"

all the inaccurate things said abut LSD and marijuana seemed to be more of a propaganda thing. there has already been similar propaganda against mdma (i.e. mdma makes holes in your brain)
but the little actual research points to likely neurotoxicity due to recepter down-regulation. however, due to the little research this neurotoxicity is not fully understood in terms of exact causes, possible dispositions towards it occurring, long term effects, possibilities of recovering, and other underlying causes. i still think the research has proven the neurotoxicty and i myself have experienced issues with memory after rolling two weekends in a row once. (the issues did not persist as far as i can tell though)

i do think its very likely that with further research we could easily come up with more ways to prevent and repair damage from mdma use.

 

[Acadian]

The big problem could be the amount being taken. I only have ever taken 1 waited an hour then taken another. I hear of people doing 5 or 6 in one night. It's like any other drug if you take to much, your body will react negatively to it.

 

[RGB]

all the inaccurate things said abut LSD and marijuana seemed to be more of a propaganda thing. there has already been similar propaganda against mdma (i.e. mdma makes holes in your brain)
but the little actual research points to likely neurotoxicity due to recepter down-regulation. however, due to the little research this neurotoxicity is not fully understood in terms of exact causes, possible dispositions towards it occurring, long term effects, possibilities of recovering, and other underlying causes. i still think the research has proven the neurotoxicty and i myself have experienced issues with memory after rolling two weekends in a row once. (the issues did not persist as far as i can tell though).

I think it's worth mentioning that receptor downregulation isn't the same thing as neurotoxicity. In its most general definition, neurotoxicity refers to irreversible changes to the structure of the brain, not to its function. Receptor downregulation is a natural facility of the brain, and will reverse itself given sufficient time.

When people talk about neurotoxicity in relation to MDMA, they're almost exclusively referring to oxidative stress caused either by reactive metabolites of MDMA, or of other neurotransmitters that are released as a consequence of taking MDMA. Normally, the brain can and does handle a certain "base" level of oxidative stress (for instance, dopamine is broken down into a peroxide by MAO), but there's something about MDMA that apparently overwhelms the brain's ability to compensate for the stress, resulting in oxidative damage. Keep in mind that studies that have demonstrated oxidative damage have used extreme doses of MDMA in a short period of time, so it's unclear how this research maps to human users at recreational doses.

 

[xyzyx00]

wuz just browsing the sight and saw this topic, i figured i should sign up and share my experiences w everyone because i wish I would have had this knowledge when i was younger...

x has been around for quite some time... and i can say there is a huge difference in the awareness of how people use it now compared to when i first started rolling in 2000. back then it was still a bit of a mystery, we were allot more careful because no one really knew what was "bad" yet. when i first started out, we would just take 1 pill a night mainly rolling every other weekend or so, that turned into 1 pill a night once a week. (still not bad for you in my opinion). did that for maybe a year or so... then i found a good source and was able to get my hands on many more pills. 1 a night turned into 3 or 4 by 2001 maybe. at this time i was still rolling pretty normal, i could still roll balls. maybe 6 months later i was eating 8-10 a night, and sometimes trying to eat more the next night (various effects totally depending on what else was in the pill). I would sell 50 to pay for the 50 I ate. I've eaten hundreds, easily. one thing i noticed over this time was that the roll was still good, but not as good and getting less intense. this went on for another year or so and to shorten the story i just decided to stop. i didnt get sick, no health issues what so ever, just decided to stop. I did feel a lil depressed for a couple months after stopping but that went away. i think i rolled again maybe a half dozen times over the course of the next couple years but that was it. About 2 years ago i moved out to SoCAl and started noticing that the rave scene out here is really good so ive started goin to parties and eatin pills again, not as often, just at massives every couple months. And once again, I still do roll, but not nearly as hard as I use to back in the day. im pretty sure ive ruined that for myself. next is an explanation of my theory...

x is an awesome drug, my favorite of all time. and im saying this for your benifit, do not abuse this great thing, its something that i regret to this day because i dont think it'll ever be the same for me. if u have to take more than 2 rolls than your pills suck or your taking them too frequently. you should be fine eating 1 or maybe 2 pills a week. it takes AT LEAST a week for your body to reproduce that serotonin. ideally, u want nearly all of your serotonin depleted for a perfect roll. if its all gone and u pop another pill your brain in a way releases another not so good chemical that can damage the receptors that accept the serotonin. the receptors can only "accept" so much serotonin at once, and what u want is as much at once as u can get. damage some of the receptors and u lessen the amount u can get at once. you HAVE TO give your body time to reproduce that serotonin! most of the time you can continue to pop pills all night and still feel fucked up, and u are, but your not rolling - what your feeling has something to do with that other chemical that is released in the place of serotonin (cant remember all the details but dancesafe has a pretty good explanation). Is ecstacy harmful?? - im not a doctor - but im gonna say only if taken in access or if there are harmful fillers added to the pills. 10 years and hundreds of pills later and im fine, with the exception that i dont roll as hard anymore

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

every week...yeah you're not etarded from rolling every week...your grammar is horrible.

 

[The Smoking Man]

I tend to be wary of any synthetic psychoactive acting on the brain. The brain wasnt made to handle it. doesnt mean it cant handle it, but to me it means that it will probably be altered in some way.

I don't really think there's much to the natural vs. synthetic argument, other than that naturally occurring substances have been more proven with time.

x is an awesome drug, my favorite of all time. and im saying this for your benifit, do not abuse this great thing, its something that i regret to this day because i dont think it'll ever be the same for me. if u have to take more than 2 rolls than your pills suck or your taking them too frequently. you should be fine eating 1 or maybe 2 pills a week. it takes AT LEAST a week for your body to reproduce that serotonin. ideally, u want nearly all of your serotonin depleted for a perfect roll. if its all gone and u pop another pill your brain in a way releases another not so good chemical that can damage the receptors that accept the serotonin. the receptors can only "accept" so much serotonin at once, and what u want is as much at once as u can get. damage some of the receptors and u lessen the amount u can get at once. you HAVE TO give your body time to reproduce that serotonin! most of the time you can continue to pop pills all night and still feel fucked up, and u are, but your not rolling - what your feeling has something to do with that other chemical that is released in the place of serotonin (cant remember all the details but dancesafe has a pretty good explanation). Is ecstacy harmful?? - im not a doctor - but im gonna say only if taken in access or if there are harmful fillers added to the pills. 10 years and hundreds of pills later and im fine, with the exception that i dont roll as hard anymore

Dude... once a week? I'd really keep it down to around once a month. Maybe do it twice in a month every once in a while, though that's pushing it; but definitely wait at least the full month after the first time you do it, seems to help avoid developing an addiction mindset.

When people talk about neurotoxicity in relation to MDMA, they're almost exclusively referring to oxidative stress caused either by reactive metabolites of MDMA, or of other neurotransmitters that are released as a consequence of taking MDMA. Normally, the brain can and does handle a certain "base" level of oxidative stress (for instance, dopamine is broken down into a peroxide by MAO), but there's something about MDMA that apparently overwhelms the brain's ability to compensate for the stress, resulting in oxidative damage. Keep in mind that studies that have demonstrated oxidative damage have used extreme doses of MDMA in a short period of time, so it's unclear how this research maps to human users at recreational doses.

Well, certainly the dopamine release caused by MDMA would be a huge factor in the neurotoxicity (and therefore other chemicals that release dopamine, your amphetamines, nicotine (although tobacco smoke apparently contains a slight amount of few MAOIs which would counter dopamine breakdown into hydrogen peroxide, though probably not to a big extent), etc.). H2O2 seems to inhibit further dopamine release as well, likely a protective measure against increasing oxidative stress. That would make two reasons for having an adequate dose of antioxidants in your body when rolling.

 

[AMTDan]

I probally have some memory probems. I dont remember if i do.

This is pure gold