Drugs instead of spirituality

[belligerent drunk]

I like how willow is trying to bring the discussion back on topic, but it doesn't really seem to work.

I agree with what you're saying though. It is understandable why religion and spirituality are used interchangeably and sometimes confused. They are somewhat similar, after all, are they not? Or how would you define one and the other then, so as they are different things?

 

[swilow]

Without wanting to sound trite, I think spirituality is something you experience inside like awe, religion is like a formalised external social ritual thing. Often functionally unrelated to the spiritual feeling. Which is probably different for everyone.

 

[belligerent drunk]

I think spirituality can be a part of religion as well. Religion is not only the formal social ritual thing, although it is a big part of it. At least for a lot of people religion seems to be analogous to spirituality.

 

[socko]

Most religions require blind faith. An atheist can experience the spiritual. Of course the atheist might describe the same experience differently from a religious person.

 

[Vagina Lover]

I have never called myself religious.

If anything, I am most closely aligned to agnosticism, although being a Jedi would be kind of cool!

I can't quite bring myself to dismiss the possibility/choice/option of belief in there being an all encompassing God, which, I suppose, falls under pantheism - the seemingly most likely religious ideal, in my opinion.

I have certainly had moments of spirituality, where I have felt like part of something much larger, like there was some kind of over-arching force that seemed alive and functioning - but this may have been a hallucination as it has occurred during DMT, acid, ketamine fun-days

 

[Foreigner]

I also don't see why it matters if drug users are not spiritual. If anything, given the propensity for delusion and flights-of-fancy to eb induced by drugs, its heartwarming to see that people are maintaining a certain rationality when asssesing their sober lives. I've seen small, subatomic machines creating reality in front of me but I have to be both sceptical and discerning in how I allow this to impact my daily life. These machines are probably worthy of being worshipped but I cannot convince myself of their reality if it takes DMT to show me them.

My understanding is that MDAO was expressing frustration with not being able to connect with the community at large in the context of drugs as a spiritual vehicle, or at least in the way that's spiritual to him. In the grand scheme it doesn't really matter what any of us chooses to do, there's no ultimate right or wrong, only relative propriety to the given moment.

The other thing I was going to bring up earlier but didn't, is that it's hard to write off people's drug use as non-spiritual based only on the way they relate their experiences to others. Not everyone is a wordsmith, nor can everyone identify what even happened to them. When you look at the average person walking down the street, you have no idea what is going on inside of them, and maybe they don't either. Just because someone seemingly used drugs to get as fucked up as possible doesn't necessarily mean some kind of mind expanding experience didn't happen in there. After all, the ticker tape of consciousness is perpetually turned on, no matter which state we enter.

When you're on a self-identified spiritual path though, it does help to be able to relate to others on the same wavelength. So I understand MDAO's loneliness in that regard (if you can call it that).

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

Fair enough, I will not comment on this thread any longer if it helps other people.

That's too bad. Sounds like pressure to conform. Threads IMO go where they will because that's where the truth lies.

From my understanding of the psychology of spirituality, it works on the simple principle that almost any amount and type of suffering becomes bearable when the sufferer truly believes their suffering is for some greater good or plan. So if you find something or someone who offers a convincing enough hint to you of what that plan (or who the Planner) might be, that just makes the drudgery, pain, and disappointment of day to day life much more bearable. Sign me up.

I think the OP has nailed it here. I've been using all kinds of drugs for well over 40 years and I've found that drugs can just as easily divest you of spirituality as inspire it depending on your intelligence and level of personal honesty. Personally I've found spirituality of all kinds wanting in the end. We are here and that's all we know for sure. Life can be very painful and usually is at some point. Drugs can take the edge off that. And if you're lucky and skillful you can even use them as a permanent escape thus avoiding the ravages of old age, disease and decline.