Mental Health Does this sleep issue sound like it's likely to be temporary or not?

[ahint]

Wasn't sure whether to post this here or in Healthy Living, sorry if it's in the wrong forum! Also, sorry if this is long, but if anyone has any input I'd be really grateful for it. I'm asking here about this because my doctor says there's nothing they can do at this point and apparently there's no sleep specialists in the area to refer me to, so I'm on my own with this.

I've had sleep issues for as long as I can remember (I'm 20 now, it's been going on way into childhood) of basically sleeping late and waking up late, often accidentally missing morning commitments through sleeping through the alarm, or if that wasn't a problem just straight up insomnia. I had decent sleep hygeine (no electronics before bed, no food before bed, only use my bed to sleep, etc) and have no idea if this biological or habit.

Melatonin helped when I was 15, and (prescribed) zopiclone for two weeks to "reset my sleep schedule" didn't help at all. Staying up all night to go to sleep at a normal time the next day didn't work either (I've tried this about once every two weeks for the past few years).

I've decided to try to stop succumbing to this sort of sleep schedule, I've started melatonin again because that helped previously, and now get in bed at 10pm every night no matter if I'm tired or not, and wake up 8am even if I haven't had much sleep. I usually fall asleep within 30 minutes which is really great, that's never happened before, but I wake up every hour for about a minute and go back to sleep - until it hits about 2.30am, then I'm just up for the night. I stay in bed until 6-8am (unable to sleep) then just get up, but I feel exhausted.

I've been trying this for about a week now, and the pattern of waking up for good at 2.30am is pretty consistent. Does this sound like it's likely to be temporary that can be solved if I keep trying with this schedule? Does anyone have any ideas of what I could do? If it helps, I've also been diagnosed with ADHD (unmedicated, so this isn't stimulant induced) and ASD. Thanks

 

[CalicoSam]

Delayed phase sleep syndrome is more common in younger people, and many people outgrow it. I'm not in a position to say that it will persist or will clear up. Either is possible. The linked to article discusses some treatments but it seems your pretty aware of things that help.

 

[iridescentblack]

Some people I've known have had the same sleep issues for years (some of them as long as 20+ years). My own sleep issues started after taking Wellbutrin. Before that I used to sleep about 10 hours a night and sometimes take a nap during the day. But back then I would sleep consistently - and without waking up - through the whole duration. After taking Wellbutrin, I experienced what you describe as waking up for 1 minute and going back to sleep. This used to happen all through the night.

Lately my sleep has been a bit more enjoyable. Still waking up at periods, but mostly sleeping at least 3-6 hours at a time instead of waking up every 45 minutes to an hour, 7-15 times throughout the night.

I believe these things get better over time, but you probably have to work with them. They won't just sort themselves out because you're being patient. Sleep hygiene, I guess, is something to follow. But I followed every good sleep hygiene step on a pamphlet my psychiatrist gave me... and did this for a whole month, but it didn't help my sleep at all. I'm pretty sure the answer lies in diet or natural chemicals. I would even go as far as to say that drugs helped my sleep. But be careful with stimulants. Pretty sure those won't help.

 

[thelung]

have you tried anything like trazodone or even seroquel or something similar? or maybe even a tab of diazepam before bed?

 

[ahint]

I've not tried any of those, no, but if by similar to diazepam you mean benzos - yeah, I have, but it's not a solution I'd like to go back to. Trading one nights sleep for two all nighters afterwards isn't fun. I don't think I could be prescribed trazodone or seroquel as I don't have any of the conditions they primarily treat.

 

[thelung]

I've not tried any of those, no, but if by similar to diazepam you mean benzos - yeah, I have, but it's not a solution I'd like to go back to. Trading one nights sleep for two all nighters afterwards isn't fun. I don't think I could be prescribed trazodone or seroquel as I don't have any of the conditions they primarily treat.

If you have trouble sleeping, you'd definitely be a candidate for trazodone. doctors love to write scripts for trazodone because its non narcotic and works well.

 

[Ligaturd]

Seroquel is being prescribed off label for anxiety and sleep which I find kind of unethical but if taken at just 25-50mgs it acts primarily as an anti-cholinergic and many people find it an effective sleep aid. Trazadone is primarily used as a sleep aid now as well, it metabolizes into mcPP which has been sold as a shitty ecstacy replacement. Most people don't metabolize enough to effect them but I seem to metabolize too much and wake up with hypnagogia (sleep paralysis or night terrors) paralyzed but alert and my heart is beating like crazy and I wake up soaked in sweat and smelling all nasty like I had been shooting meth all night.

Effective sleep aids which increase REM sleep are Temazepam (benzos are not a good long term solution as addiction and dependancy can ensue and can lead to long term insomnia and anxiety issues if not used and tapered off properly), and Mirtazepine which is also an anti-depressant and a really effective one at that. I would choose Mirtazepine over any of the SSRI's any day but that's just me. Doses prescribed for sleep would be closer to 15-30mgs I believe. If I had to be on anything for my sleep troubles it would be Mirtazepine, it does cause increased hunger and guaranteed weight gain though. As far as I know, these are the only two prescription drugs which actually increase sleep quality. There is a definite trade off and people have to weigh the pros and cons of taking sleep meds, especially because most of them disturb REM sleep and in some cases they wont be of much benefit. People will be sleeping earlier and for longer but is the sleep quality better overall?

Melatonin is best used for only a couple week treatment to actually reset the circadian rythym and coax your sleep schedule to a more healthy one. Long term usage may lead to an even more disturbed sleep cycle without it but it is the lesser of many evils. You might want to go to a sleep clinic and have your brain waves monitored to get a diagnosis and the best treatment plan for yourself. I hope you find something that works for you, I know how shitty insomnia is.

 

[Mmp85]

Personally I didn't care for Seroquel or Trazadone as sleep aids because they made me very hungover feeling and drowsy the next day and it was hard to get out of bed. And if that's already a struggle for you then it would be magnified by those meds. And like another poster said, the nightmares are awful. You feel half awake and you know it's a dream and yet you can't move or make it stop. Similar to trying to wake up in the mornings, my alarm would be going off and I would be awake mentally but physically I couldn't lift a hand to turn it off.
Of course we're all different and that's just my experience with those meds.
What are your parents sleep habits like?
I'm a night owl and could sleep the day away if society and my job allowed it, my mother is the same way. I don't know if that's genetics or because she allowed it when I wasn't in school.
Do you nap? Is napping an option with your schedule? Do naps leave you feeling less tired? With your sleep problems are you able to nap?
My mother finally just came to terms with the fact that she's probably only ever going to sleep 4-5 hours at night and take a 3-4 hour nap in the afternoon. She's a teacher and this works for her. Obviously not everyone can arrange their sleep preference around their job though.

 

[LookingForSelf]

Personally I didn't care for Seroquel or Trazadone as sleep aids because they made me very hungover feeling and drowsy the next day and it was hard to get out of bed. And if that's already a struggle for you then it would be magnified by those meds. And like another poster said, the nightmares are awful. You feel half awake and you know it's a dream and yet you can't move or make it stop. Similar to trying to wake up in the mornings, my alarm would be going off and I would be awake mentally but physically I couldn't lift a hand to turn it off.
Of course we're all different and that's just my experience with those meds.
What are your parents sleep habits like?
I'm a night owl and could sleep the day away if society and my job allowed it, my mother is the same way. I don't know if that's genetics or because she allowed it when I wasn't in school.
Do you nap? Is napping an option with your schedule? Do naps leave you feeling less tired? With your sleep problems are you able to nap?
My mother finally just came to terms with the fact that she's probably only ever going to sleep 4-5 hours at night and take a 3-4 hour nap in the afternoon. She's a teacher and this works for her. Obviously not everyone can arrange their sleep preference around their job though.

I'm at a limbo because I dont know which is the lesser of the two evils: Not going to bed for 2 days consistently every week OR Taking a pill of Mirtzapine and having increased depression