Ethnobotanicals Does Salvia Degrade?

[G_Chem]

Hey guys,

So yea my curiosity of this plant is slowly growing again after all these years. It’s the only drug I’ve ever tried just once, and fear it struck into me lasted about 16yrs lol.

But reading about people’s afterglows with it reminds me that I do remember a similar glow after my one experience back then. Very happy to be alive

I’m curious does Salvia degrade at all? I’ve had some stored either at room temperature or the fridge since about 2014. Is it still gonna be good?

Also can i quid the dry leaf or extract all the same? I don’t wanna smoke it.

Thanks!!

-GC

 

[JackARoe]

No. Salvia will be one of those items that we could bury with the mummies they dig it up 1000 years from now and find it just as potent. Like mescaline or morphine.

I have not purchased leaf in this or the last decade and it seems to get stronger as time goes on. Just smoked leaf from 1999 that kicked my ass last week on 3 puffs. Forgot I was a human for a bit. lol

Quidding is good, but I really really believe Salvia introduced itself to the world by smoking. I would try both. If smoking just put half a gram of leaf in a pipe and take a hit and build up until comfortable. Quidding takes a lot more. Fresh seems better. But yeah, smoking is where I find my benefits so far and will attempt more quidding in the future.

 

[December Flower]

No. Salvia will be one of those items that we could bury with the mummies they dig it up 1000 years from now and find it just as potent. Like mescaline or morphine.

I'm not smoking mummy dust

Salvia is fucking dangerous, and I don't think we should dabble around with it. Especially those concentrated ones à x40 and so on.
I have an acquaintance who cannot breathe on his own without having to remind himself nonstop, after abusing concentrated salvia. He needs breathing support to sleep.

Not trying to scare you, I've successfully smoked concentrated Salvia on numerous occasions, just give it the respect it needs. Be careful, be smart about it. Never too much, never for too long periods of time, test the waters first, minimal doses at first, especially if you don't know/remember how strong it is.

edit: I personally only liked Salvia combined with Cabrerana leaves. I had the feeling that they made bad trips nigh impossible, and made the whole transition from normal to unicornland much smoother.

 

[G_Chem]

I'm not smoking mummy dust

Salvia is fucking dangerous, and I don't think we should dabble around with it. Especially those concentrated ones à x40 and so on.
I have an acquaintance who cannot breathe on his own without having to remind himself nonstop, after abusing concentrated salvia. He needs breathing support to sleep.

Not trying to scare you, I've successfully smoked concentrated Salvia on numerous occasions, just give it the respect it needs. Be careful, be smart about it. Never too much, never for too long periods of time, test the waters first, minimal doses at first, especially if you don't know/remember how strong it is.

edit: I personally only liked Salvia combined with Cabrerana leaves. I had the feeling that they made bad trips nigh impossible, and made the whole transition from normal to unicornland much smoother.

I’m really curious to know more about your friend, that sounds like hell. So he essentially has to consciously breath? Any and all info is appreciated!

-GC

 

[December Flower]

I’m really curious to know more about your friend, that sounds like hell. So he essentially has to consciously breath? Any and all info is appreciated!

-GC

Yes, he has to keep reminding himself.
This means sometimes he will just not breathe for some time, suddenly remember and take a huge breath.
I'm not sure on the specifics of why this happened, though. It's also quite hard to communicate with him, because he has big issues staying on topic.

 

[JackARoe]

Salvia is fucking dangerous, and I don't think we should dabble around with it.

Personally I consider gobbling chemicals from China far more dangerous although I wish health and healing to your friend. I also agree extract is not needed but Salvia is a valid psychonautical tool for people who want to try an age old psychedelic. I mean PCP use to be considered dangerous until some people knew how to utilize it. And I think all dissociative type drugs are more dangerous than straight psychedelics so people have to make their own judgement. And as we see BLer's do what they want. :D

All things need perspective, attention, wisdom and some common sense. From what I have seen many people should probably stay away from it. But others know how to use it wisely.

I was talking about the storage of Salvia being stable. Not mummy dust.

 

[December Flower]

Personally I consider gobbling chemicals from China far more dangerous although I wish health and healing to your friend. I also agree extract is not needed but Salvia is a valid psychonautical tool for people who want to try an age old psychedelic. I mean PCP use to be considered dangerous until some people knew how to utilize it. And I think all dissociative type drugs are more dangerous than straight psychedelics so people have to make their own judgement. And as we see BLer's do what they want. :D

All things need perspective, attention, wisdom and some common sense. From what I have seen many people should probably stay away from it. But others know how to use it wisely.

I was talking about the storage of Salvia being stable. Not mummy dust.

I think the wisest way to use is not to.
But as we all lack wisdom, and we should at least try to be smart about our misguided decisions.

I just wanted to stress that Salvia is potentially very dangerous to the stability of our mind/workings of our neurons. Minimal doses to get to know the potency of the substance, then careful administering with days inbetween to give yourself the chance to recover. I think we can agree on that

I'm not a fan of the word "psychonaut", or the solidarity towards psychotrope substances in general. It's a misguided path of "wisdom" that leads to an eternal crossroads, that is my opinion. I've been there. That being said I very much believe in the therapeutic values of microdosing LSD or Mescaline.
I just think this self-appointed "explorer of space and time"-status has next to no value. Nobody's not going to crack the secrets of the universe, and anyone thinks they did, they're likely wrong. I mean, yes, the usual realisation that the entire universe is one, that's just the theory of the big bang expressed all hippy dippy, yes everything comes from the same source. That all this happened on a sub-nuclear scale, and quantum fluctuations probably caused the big bang is something you'll need an actual scientific base for. Yknow what I mean? You're going to process through information you possess, but you're not going to acquire new ones just by taking drugs. That's ridiculous. This is just my opinion, don't want to offend.

 

[JackARoe]

This is just my opinion, don't want to offend.

Never opinions make this board a treat to read. I will say this though forget cracking the "code of the universe" if we need a more tangable outcome from LSD administration in say the 60's we certainly got a whole body of good music and art.

It seems all categories of substances have their fans. And any poison can heal or cripple. So wise us is needed in all areas and I think we agree on that.

 

[December Flower]

How can you be sure that this was caused by salvia ingestion? How frequently was he a user of concentrated salvia preparations? I don't mean to sound apathetic, but this is one for the medical literature. Salvinorin-induced sleep apnea, a medical rarity.

Apnoea has been linked to psychosis before.
This is not unheard of, actually OSA is a rather common symptom in schizophrenics.
This is already written down in medical literature so no need to add it.
My personal theory is that the Salvia made the schizophrenia break out in psychosis, and that's where the OSA started. But as I said, it's almost impossible to speak to him and acquire data.

I only know about the Salvia

 

[Preytor]

Salvia is fucking dangerous, and I don't think we should dabble around with it. Especially those concentrated ones à x40 and so on.
I have an acquaintance who cannot breathe on his own without having to remind himself nonstop, after abusing concentrated salvia. He needs breathing support to sleep.

I don't post much but I'd like to throw in my two cents as I've had a similar experience, which I luckily recovered from unlike your poor friend.

Had eaten around 150ug of acid along with some homemade pot brownies, probably 3g+ of stardawg in the chunk I had. Forgot how to breath, was either breathing too much, taking breaths that would hurt my lungs, or too little and had to gasp for air. Had to keep at it for 3-4 literal hours (obviously felt much longer) until I put some David Lynch shorts on the TV and that distracted me for a while. Next day was slightly better but still had the problem, and working through it took me over a week.

It is also relevant, that as a kid I remember often getting caught up in thought loops of controlling my breathing or blinking, rather than letting them happen automatically, and at times I'd find it impossible not to get stuck in that. So it seems that some preexisting obsessive behaviour tends to be part of these experiences, along with the consumption of the substance.

I'm writing this out because there is no reason to single out salvia as some evil psychotropic that ruins people mentally, most experiences I've had with it have actually been wonderful or at the very least, fascinatingly weird. Yeah I've read the horrifying reports with stupid doses of it, but so have I for most drugs. And even if it could be more likely to have a dysphoric experience with salvia compared to other substances, as long as the person is aware of that, then salvia is not really any more dangerous.

I think people here are aware of this; all psychedelics have potentially catastrophic effects on the psyche. That's the trade-off for steering off course into the great unknown, and that's why people can bring back with them something great that they can apply to their lives. I've returned from trips with neuroses that tortured me for months, and I've also had trips that completely changed my life for the better. I wouldn't even be here without them.

So stay safe kids, eat your acid with your breakfast cereal, and don't let the cereal mascot tell you what to do.

 

[December Flower]

I don't post much but I'd like to throw in my two cents as I've had a similar experience, which I luckily recovered from unlike your poor friend.

Had eaten around 150ug of acid along with some homemade pot brownies, probably 3g+ of stardawg in the chunk I had. Forgot how to breath, was either breathing too much, taking breaths that would hurt my lungs, or too little and had to gasp for air. Had to keep at it for 3-4 literal hours (obviously felt much longer) until I put some David Lynch shorts on the TV and that distracted me for a while. Next day was slightly better but still had the problem, and working through it took me over a week.

It is also relevant, that as a kid I remember often getting caught up in thought loops of controlling my breathing or blinking, rather than letting them happen automatically, and at times I'd find it impossible not to get stuck in that. So it seems that some preexisting obsessive behaviour tends to be part of these experiences, along with the consumption of the substance.

I'm writing this out because there is no reason to single out salvia as some evil psychotropic that ruins people mentally, most experiences I've had with it have actually been wonderful or at the very least, fascinatingly weird. Yeah I've read the horrifying reports with stupid doses of it, but so have I for most drugs. And even if it could be more likely to have a dysphoric experience with salvia compared to other substances, as long as the person is aware of that, then salvia is not really any more dangerous.

I think people here are aware of this; all psychedelics have potentially catastrophic effects on the psyche. That's the trade-off for steering off course into the great unknown, and that's why people can bring back with them something great that they can apply to their lives. I've returned from trips with neuroses that tortured me for months, and I've also had trips that completely changed my life for the better. I wouldn't even be here without them.

So stay safe kids, eat your acid with your breakfast cereal, and don't let the cereal mascot tell you what to do.

The thing is, I've heard more horror-stories from Salvia than from most other "commonly used" psychedelics. Say if you compare it to pure DMT or caapi, Salvia is very "in your face", thus making it significantly more dangerous in my opinion. Especially with these concentrates, it can be easy to use just a "little" too much, and suddenly you're in gagaland for what feels like a thousand years.

I'm yet to hear a horrorstory from peyote It's so sublime, I couldn't imagine having a bad trip from it.
Maybe that prevents me from having one, ofc

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

I don't post much but I'd like to throw in my two cents as I've had a similar experience, which I luckily recovered from unlike your poor friend.

Had eaten around 150ug of acid along with some homemade pot brownies, probably 3g+ of stardawg in the chunk I had. Forgot how to breath, was either breathing too much, taking breaths that would hurt my lungs, or too little and had to gasp for air. Had to keep at it for 3-4 literal hours (obviously felt much longer) until I put some David Lynch shorts on the TV and that distracted me for a while. Next day was slightly better but still had the problem, and working through it took me over a week.

It is also relevant, that as a kid I remember often getting caught up in thought loops of controlling my breathing or blinking, rather than letting them happen automatically, and at times I'd find it impossible not to get stuck in that. So it seems that some preexisting obsessive behaviour tends to be part of these experiences, along with the consumption of the substance.

I'm writing this out because there is no reason to single out salvia as some evil psychotropic that ruins people mentally, most experiences I've had with it have actually been wonderful or at the very least, fascinatingly weird. Yeah I've read the horrifying reports with stupid doses of it, but so have I for most drugs. And even if it could be more likely to have a dysphoric experience with salvia compared to other substances, as long as the person is aware of that, then salvia is not really any more dangerous.

I think people here are aware of this; all psychedelics have potentially catastrophic effects on the psyche. That's the trade-off for steering off course into the great unknown, and that's why people can bring back with them something great that they can apply to their lives. I've returned from trips with neuroses that tortured me for months, and I've also had trips that completely changed my life for the better. I wouldn't even be here without them.

So stay safe kids, eat your acid with your breakfast cereal, and don't let the cereal mascot tell you what to do.

What was eating the stardawg herb in 3.0 grams like for you? Was it a sexy and fun high or was it more confusing?

150ug of LSD is not that much, but it probably was stronger when you ate the THC.

I have never used Salvia but I had some 5X extract for about a year, had not used it, and a friend expressed interest in Salvia so we smoked his hookah-flavored tobacco was in there I thought we should have put hashish or pot in it but we did not have any-while my friend smoked the Salvia 5x extract and he almost broke through, had an unpleasant time but the experience did not last long. My friend had taken LSD and mushrooms in all doses from low to very high, smoked pot, used other drugs, etc. so I gave him the Salvia and the small glass pipe he had smoked the Salvia with, as I would just smoke pot, take acid, or eat Psilocybin mushrooms instead.

 

[Preytor]

The thing is, I've heard more horror-stories from Salvia than from most other "commonly used" psychedelics. Say if you compare it to pure DMT or caapi, Salvia is very "in your face", thus making it significantly more dangerous in my opinion. Especially with these concentrates, it can be easy to use just a "little" too much, and suddenly you're in gagaland for what feels like a thousand years.

I'm yet to hear a horrorstory from peyote It's so sublime, I couldn't imagine having a bad trip from it.
Maybe that prevents me from having one, ofc

I know what you mean, and personally, I vastly prefer DMT to salvia and find it way more enjoyable. But at the same time, salvia is not respected as much as DMT is, nor is it treated in the same way, with the same caution, and I think it has to do with the fact it usually comes in leaf form. People tend to use the concentrates like weed, filling the bong and not weighing the material in an accurate scale like they do with DMT. You can certainly push DMT doses high enough, where it goes beyond being pleasurable.

To be fair, there is also the fact that in order to dose salvia accurately, you have to adjust it to the concentrate power(400 / ”X-factor” = dose in milligrams), and unfortunately, there is variance between batches, so that many times the leaf will be weaker and won't be working, and it gets more difficult to calculate the right dosage. Got to be patient with it. Plus, salvia has a weird reverse tolerance going on, and that means that as you use more of it, you'll progressively need less and less for the same results.

As long as it is used the right way though, I wouldn't try to dissuade anyone interested from trying it if they had read enough about it.

And fuck yeah man, peyote is truly sublime.

 

[Preytor]

What was eating the stardawg herb in 3.0 grams like for you? Was it a sexy and fun high or was it more confusing?

150ug of LSD is not that much, but it probably was stronger when you ate the THC.

I have never used Salvia but I had some 5X extract for about a year, had not used it, and a friend expressed interest in Salvia so we smoked his hookah-flavored tobacco was in there I thought we should have put hashish or pot in it but we did not have any-while my friend smoked the Salvia 5x extract and he almost broke through, had an unpleasant time but the experience did not last long. My friend had taken LSD and mushrooms in all doses from low to very high, smoked pot, used other drugs, etc. so I gave him the Salvia and the small glass pipe he had smoked the Salvia with, as I would just smoke pot, take acid, or eat Psilocybin mushrooms instead.

Yeah the acid trip by itself wasn't really intense. I didn't break through, visuals were light, sense of reality was stable. I've done higher doses without encountering anything like that, it was definitely taking the brownies with a lowered tolerance and lots of stress, that pushed me over the edge and beyond. The experience started off with spiraling repeating thoughts and then manifested physically and stayed that way, without me having any control over it. Those were some killer brownies, I had that chunk left in my freezer from when I made them for the poker guys and they just massacred all of us.

If you're interested in Salvia, just take it slow and build up from there. No point buying anything over 20x as it becomes a pisstake to dose it properly. Small doses in themselves are quite pleasant and I will sometimes take a faint toke, to get that salvia feeling going, close my eyes, listen to some music and enjoy the bodily and spacial distortions.

 

[December Flower]

How interesting, do you have a link to the literature?

There definitely seems to be a higher incident rate of sleep apnea in schizophrenic populations (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26688840/).

This is rather confusing, not sure what to make of this now.
Do you still need the literature? You seem to have found something yourself, and now I am very confused
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614792/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26116523/
This links schizophrenia to a multitude of sleeping disorders and issues with neuropathology in general

In the end the explanation makes sense to me, but to be honest, it could have been anything.
He smokes the Salv, falls of his bed while he's dancing with 2D ducks, hits his head to hard, and gets brain damage from that.
With the brain, everything is possible, and even the smallest change can be pretty fatal.
I'm certainly not a neurologist, so I can only work with what he and his ex-gf told me.

 

[pupnik]

a person can be scared to death.

people with medical (including psychiatric) afflictions might be examined for apnea, and thus add to the statistics, but millions of people have equal amounts of apnea and are never diagnosed, so it is not in the statistics.

so the numbers kind of lie.