🤝 Cultural 🤝 Do you think doctors are gods?

[LucidSDreamr]

I'd probably put up with quite a bit for 120 tramadol a month too. lol

tramadol is OTC in most free countries. Man the west is so cucked

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

tramadol is OTC in most free countries. Man the west is so cucked

Completely agree.

And some one on here got into it with me because I called America "gross". lol Yeah it is pretty fucking "gross" that most other countries that people call "shit" at least give their citizens over the counter opioids. It might not be heroin or anything, but it still means they give their citizens more trust & "freedom" than the land that claims to be "the land of the free". Ironically a land built on genocide & slavery. lol

I actually found a headline claiming 800,000 - shouldn't the fact that the numbers vary so wildly suggest that the metrics were arbritaty and chosen by the journalist?

Possibly. But the fact that it's variation is even in the hundreds of thousands is still ridiculous.


They claim 70,000+ people die a year from opioids. And I'm sure a big chunk of these are accidents & poly-drug deaths. Usually with alcohol involved. So the actual number of people who die strictly from opioids annually is probably severely lower than that actual 70,000 number. Most of these deaths are preventable too. Hell I lost several friends back in 2018, who had been heroin users since the 80's & were alive & well. And then fentanyl started popping up in our area & it took one bag of fent for them to die. They thought it was "heroin", took their usual dose & it killed them. Totally preventable if they had just been able to get legal heroin from somewhere.

It almost happened to me once, but I was more knowledgeable & lucky. Got a bag one day, it wasn't the tan/brown rocks with an acidic smell that I was use to, it was just a plain white powder with no smell, so obviously I tried a tiny tester bump first. And that tiny tester bump had me nodding so hard, I had to break out the naloxone "just in case". It was horrible nod too, like you're about to just fall out of consciousness & die. Not the "wow, I feel perfect right now" kind of nod (that you can snap out of if you really want to). So if I had been an idiot & dug into that bag like it was "heroin", I probably would've had my first OD ever. But I played it smart & it saved my ass.

So my actual point is just that, the US is totally cool with people dying in the hundreds of thousands due to smoking, alcohol & "medical error", but a few thousand actual opioid deaths is all they scream about when it comes to the drug war. Which should tell anyone that the drug war doesn't have anything to do with "keeping you safe", but from letting you access a class a meds that helps improves people's live substantially. Opioids have numerous benefits (for me they always have anyway). They help my severe depression, anxiety, they're anti-addictive drugs (for me, when I have a good opioid, I don't care for alcohol or doing any other drugs really, except some cannabis, but when I have no opioids, I'm literally chugging robitussin & taking whatever drug I can get my hand on), they help pain, etc...

The US could easily stop those 70,000 deaths by giving their citizens a little more freedom & educating people better on the dangers of poly-drug use.
Those friends of mine might have still been here if it weren't for prohibition & stigmatization in the first place.
It's insane that we continue to stigmatize & criminalize them.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

It might not be heroin or anything, but it still means they give their citizens more trust & "freedom" than the land that claims to be "the land of the free".

And not a single one of these countries has fentanyl/tranq zombies littering the sidewalks of every major city like the US. Just people taking tramadol and going to work. The stupidity of America astounds me on so many fronts - like we’re just wrong on almost every major issue you look at.

 

[4DQSAR]

The problem I see is that their is currenly no definition of 'death due to medical error' nor even classifications.

What I find interesting is that the three illnessess most commonly mentioned by Johns Hopkins are heart disease, lung cancer and strokes. Now all three of these have (in the main) got known causes and I think we have all been told that lifestyle choices are the best way to avoid these illnesses.

So if someone goes to their doctor or ends up in hospital and isn't honest about their lifestyle choices - that WILL confuse doctors. I know this because the very first lesson doctors recieve on diagnosis are the words 'ask the patient'. I'm not asserting people are lying although I have noted on BL people quite regularly saying they do... to get what THEY want... but if you lie, don't be awfully surprised if the doctor believes you. If you get used to the idea that lying to doctors is a good plan while you are young, it's possible that you will just see that as how you talk to doctors for the rest of your life.

I don't lie to doctors. I am severely messed up due to some extreme life events but I have steadfastly refused to increase my oxycodone dose for almost a decade and I want to see how long I can manage without NEEDING more. I'm 55, I'm pretty sure that after a decade, my pain clinic would likely consider it to be a reasonable request. I don't, because actually I don't need it. But I would like to think that if something awful happened, the hospital would see I was already tolerant to opioids and if emergency analgesia is required, not fear to provide the appropriate dose.

BTW yes - in the UK we still use diamorphine (heroin) medically and I suppose a doctor might consider it. I think a 30mg ampoule wouldn't kill me but would likely be about as much analgesia as any opioid can provide. But that;s the thing. I don't want to ever NEED it.

As @LucidSDreamr rightly points out - the US is really messed up and the figure for fentanyl deaths only presumes toxicology reports showing 'fatal' concentration in bodily fluids. Does it cover people dying from infections caused by injecting? Does it cover people wandering in front of vehicles? I honestly don't know, but from what I'm hearing, I think the true figure might be lower than the reality. Why do that? Because if that true number was known, people would say 'clearly we can't arrest people to solve this issue - we need to think of alternatives'. But the US has the DEA. If a person's job relies on arresting people for crimes involving drugs, if you make drugs legal, no job. I'm sure there are people in the DEA who think what they do is right, but I'm certain there are many who know it's not working. But hey, they got a family to support and that's a tough call. I don't hate them, I just think having an agency devoted to control of drugs has made things worse for all Americans.

You guys need a DEA that polices the LEGAL suppliers of drugs but allows people to choose. That way they have a job, have a stack of experience in how to spot bad stuff and your drugs get safer, better and nobody gets their rice bowl broken.

 

[notsmokeymcpot42088]

The problem I see is that their is currenly no definition of 'death due to medical error' nor even classifications.

What I find interesting is that the three illnessess most commonly mentioned by Johns Hopkins are heart disease, lung cancer and strokes. Now all three of these have (in the main) got known causes and I think we have all been told that lifestyle choices are the best way to avoid these illnesses.

So if someone goes to their doctor or ends up in hospital and isn't honest about their lifestyle choices - that WILL confuse doctors. I know this because the very first lesson doctors recieve on diagnosis are the words 'ask the patient'. I'm not asserting people are lying although I have noted on BL people quite regularly saying they do... to get what THEY want... but if you lie, don't be awfully surprised if the doctor believes you. If you get used to the idea that lying to doctors is a good plan while you are young, it's possible that you will just see that as how you talk to doctors for the rest of your life.

I don't lie to doctors. I am severely messed up due to some extreme life events but I have steadfastly refused to increase my oxycodone dose for almost a decade and I want to see how long I can manage without NEEDING more. I'm 55, I'm pretty sure that after a decade, my pain clinic would likely consider it to be a reasonable request. I don't, because actually I don't need it. But I would like to think that if something awful happened, the hospital would see I was already tolerant to opioids and if emergency analgesia is required, not fear to provide the appropriate dose.

BTW yes - in the UK we still use diamorphine (heroin) medically and I suppose a doctor might consider it. I think a 30mg ampoule wouldn't kill me but would likely be about as much analgesia as any opioid can provide. But that;s the thing. I don't want to ever NEED it.

As @LucidSDreamr rightly points out - the US is really messed up and the figure for fentanyl deaths only presumes toxicology reports showing 'fatal' concentration in bodily fluids. Does it cover people dying from infections caused by injecting? Does it cover people wandering in front of vehicles? I honestly don't know, but from what I'm hearing, I think the true figure might be lower than the reality. Why do that? Because if that true number was known, people would say 'clearly we can't arrest people to solve this issue - we need to think of alternatives'. But the US has the DEA. If a person's job relies on arresting people for crimes involving drugs, if you make drugs legal, no job. I'm sure there are people in the DEA who think what they do is right, but I'm certain there are many who know it's not working. But hey, they got a family to support and that's a tough call. I don't hate them, I just think having an agency devoted to control of drugs has made things worse for all Americans.

You guys need a DEA that polices the LEGAL suppliers of drugs but allows people to choose. That way they have a job, have a stack of experience in how to spot bad stuff and your drugs get safer, better and nobody gets their rice bowl broken.

I agree with the 'careful what you wish for' sentiment in there somewhere. You play your doc into dope and than get addicted it isnt really on them. Probably shouldn't advertise directly to consumers, feels like a big mistake but the responsibility is shared at minimum.