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Stimulants Do you know something about hypermetabolic state caused by amph or other stims?

sacsky

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
131
While reading up a bit on dextroamphetamine I read at a medical site that there has been a reported case of someone
getting something called hypermetabolic state from dex. This state was characterized by hyperactivity and a few other things and then
death by cardiac arrest.
This really scares me. I wonder how common is this? I also wonder if this happened at normal doses or if it was abuse.

I don't know I'm really scared of dex. To me it seems like it's much more dangerous than MPH. :(
 
I can attest to the safety of d-amph personally
i was scripted it for years and i went completely ridiculous abusing it in the past (my personal "record" is killing 25 dexedrine ir 10s, orally, in about 45 minutes, and i was fine, only because i am very experienced with speed but yeah)
now that being said
with amp and methamp, if youre healthy and nothing is wrong with you, overdose is basically impossible, other than people having panic attacks and thinkjng theyre overdosing and calling 911...
but if you dont have a clean bill of health, its a big gamble-cardiac arrest can happen at medicinal doses if youve got heart problems, even though normal people can take obscene doses snd be good
its all about how strong your mind is if you want to use amphetamines.
 
I can certainly understand it, but seems like it would be extremely hard to cause that to happen. At one point I basically took a month of methylphenidate within a 3 day time span, most injected. I could tell I had a lot more energy, however, it had to be apparent to others that I was bouncing off the walls and going crazy. Soooo, I could see how the dextrose would amp a person up to feel like Superman, they go silly and work their heart on big time ovdrdrive, to the point it can't keep up.

I learned my lesson from that one time. I didnt realize how dumb and dangerous I was being.
 
Hi,
what do you mean with heart problems? You mean something like clogged arteries or also something like skipped beats?
I have skipped beats sometimes which scare me. One time I also had artial flutter. But this was years ago. Also on ritalin I have no problems.
Does this mean if I tolerate medicinal doses of ritalin then dex also won't be much different?

I also ask myself if you take amphetamines and then you feel kinda weird, like for example hyperactive, how do you know if it's something harmless or something
serious like this metabolic syndrome?
I really don't want to freak out when I take it and then check myself all the time for abnormal symptoms or camp in front of an ER....

@ justadude

You think that this person got a cardiac arrest from being too active? It sucks that they didn't mention how it happened and how much this person was taking.
This would have explained a lot.
 
Hyperactivity is textbook amphetamine effect.
If youre good on mph you should be good on dex. Dex imo is a far cleaner stimulant than shitty mph.
heart problems being anything serious with ya heart, idk, it doesnt particularly concern me as i have a healthy heart but anything seriously wrong and stimulants are real risky
theyre not risky in healthy individuals.
 
Cardiac-wise amphetamines are pretty safe--at least compared to their intended "therapeutic" window. I'm certainly not going to claim that hardcore meth abuse doesn't have a negative impact on cardiovascular health--but in my opinion whatever damage is done probably has more to do with the poor nutrition and sleep deprivation that stimulant abuse tends to be associated with. Most cases of "sudden death" in my opinion are probably due to exacerbation of a congenital or acquired (ie. through abuse of 5ht2b agonists) cardiac defect.

On the sleep deprivation note: That's seriously important. Our sleep cycle regulates a lot of the "repair work" that our body does on a daily basis. For example, collagen production is regulated by sleep, and is necessary for upkeeping your endothelial tissue. That means bad news for cardiovascular health. Also glucose metabolism, etc. are heavily affected by sleep deprivation and could definitely be responsible for a "metabolic syndrome" that doctors observe.
 
I wonder if amphetamines are safe and mild then why do they have so many scary side effects?
I mean the side effects list is even longer and scarier than that of ritalin. I don't really know how to
deal with this. Usually I'd never take a drug which has stuff like sudden death or stroke. It sounds like
you can take it and die every second while on it. I don't want to be too anxious but at the same time I
also don't want to take huge risks.

I wonder are the side effects in the leaflets only related to people who took therapeutic doses? Cause that would
mean that all these awful things happened to normal people and this would mean that the same thing could happen
to anybody and that would be damn scary.
 
I wonder if amphetamines are safe and mild then why do they have so many scary side effects?
I mean the side effects list is even longer and scarier than that of ritalin. I don't really know how to
deal with this. Usually I'd never take a drug which has stuff like sudden death or stroke. It sounds like
you can take it and die every second while on it. I don't want to be too anxious but at the same time I
also don't want to take huge risks.

I wonder are the side effects in the leaflets only related to people who took therapeutic doses? Cause that would
mean that all these awful things happened to normal people and this would mean that the same thing could happen
to anybody and that would be damn scary.
Ritalin also has sudden death syndrome as a possible complication. All stimulant medications are.... Well, stimulatory. They increase your physical "readiness" by increasing heart rate, blood pressure, etc. This is normally not a dangerous effect (although it might be uncomfortable), however it can be dangerous in a person with an actual heart defect. To repeat my previous example of a 5ht2b-induced cardiac cell proliferation: mitral valve prolapse is a heart defect where the leaflet separating your left ventricle and left atrium doesn't properly close during ventricular contraction--resulting in partial ejection of blood backwards into the atrium during each heart beat. This means that your heart has to work harder, because it needs to apply enough pressure to propel blood through your body while also propelling some blood backwards. additionally, this increased heart load causes compensatory increases in the contractile strength of your left ventricle--corresponding to a greater pressure of backflow. increasing pressures in the left atrium can eventually preventing freshly oxygenated blood from entering via the pulmonary veins from lungs. This in turn causes hypertrophy (increased size) of the left atrium and ventricle in order to improve pulmonary flow. This is a condition which can take years to become significant enough to warrant clinical treatment--or may never require treatment at all. However, the eventual outcome of these changes is that the hypertrophic ventricle is no longer able to fully clear itself in the time period between heartbeats (ie. Decreasing ejection fraction), increasing risks of congestive heart failure, etc. The key here is that decreasing ejection fraction actually decreases the volume of blood being moved. This means that stimulants could exacerbate a condition like this by increasing heart rate, thereby decreasing the ejection fraction of each ventricular contraction and leading to congestive heart failure.

That's how stimulants can "cause" sudden death. But they're not really the cause. In healthy individuals, stimulants are fairly well tolerated. The only significant difference in safety profile between amphetamine and ritalin has to do with the fact that amphetamine is a monoamine releaser, while ritalin (methylphenidate) is a "mere" reuptake inhibitor. At high levels of reuptake inhibition, your body can compensate by sharply reducing the release of new monoamines into the synapse in response to stimuli. However amphetamine, by directly reversing monoamine transport, doesn't require any "natural" release of monoamines to exert its effects. This basically means that solo-amphetamine-intoxication can be lethal at lower doses than solo-methylphenidate intoxication.
 
I can't help but to ask if we are being trolled. We've answered questions in many different ways.

With all due respect OP, if you are THIS worried/scared to take it, then don't take it. Pretty much sums it up.
 
Ritalin also has sudden death syndrome as a possible complication. All stimulant medications are.... Well, stimulatory. They increase your physical "readiness" by increasing heart rate, blood pressure, etc. This is normally not a dangerous effect (although it might be uncomfortable), however it can be dangerous in a person with an actual heart defect. To repeat my previous example of a 5ht2b-induced cardiac cell proliferation: mitral valve prolapse is a heart defect where the leaflet separating your left ventricle and left atrium doesn't properly close during ventricular contraction--resulting in partial ejection of blood backwards into the atrium during each heart beat. This means that your heart has to work harder, because it needs to apply enough pressure to propel blood through your body while also propelling some blood backwards. additionally, this increased heart load causes compensatory increases in the contractile strength of your left ventricle--corresponding to a greater pressure of backflow. increasing pressures in the left atrium can eventually preventing freshly oxygenated blood from entering via the pulmonary veins from lungs. This in turn causes hypertrophy (increased size) of the left atrium and ventricle in order to improve pulmonary flow. This is a condition which can take years to become significant enough to warrant clinical treatment--or may never require treatment at all. However, the eventual outcome of these changes is that the hypertrophic ventricle is no longer able to fully clear itself in the time period between heartbeats (ie. Decreasing ejection fraction), increasing risks of congestive heart failure, etc. The key here is that decreasing ejection fraction actually decreases the volume of blood being moved. This means that stimulants could exacerbate a condition like this by increasing heart rate, thereby decreasing the ejection fraction of each ventricular contraction and leading to congestive heart failure.

That's how stimulants can "cause" sudden death. But they're not really the cause. In healthy individuals, stimulants are fairly well tolerated. The only significant difference in safety profile between amphetamine and ritalin has to do with the fact that amphetamine is a monoamine releaser, while ritalin (methylphenidate) is a "mere" reuptake inhibitor. At high levels of reuptake inhibition, your body can compensate by sharply reducing the release of new monoamines into the synapse in response to stimuli. However amphetamine, by directly reversing monoamine transport, doesn't require any "natural" release of monoamines to exert its effects. This basically means that solo-amphetamine-intoxication can be lethal at lower doses than solo-methylphenidate intoxication.

Great answer, thanks.

I wonder does continual use of amphetamines lead to a lack of dopamine when it basically squeezes the dopamine out of the neurons?
That's one thing which also worries me a bit. Cause I have actually been asking myself WHY no drug with reuptake mechanism (SSRI;SNRI,MPH) works for me and wether this could mean
that I lack neurotransmitters in the first place which is why there isn't much to block. If this really was the case the amphetamines would only make this worse and lead to an even greater
lack of dopamine.
I even asked my pdoc about this but he had nothing to say in response. It was really disappointing.

I use whey protein, P5P,Metafolate,a high dosed B complex,fish oil, vitamin E, vitamin C and a multivitamin. But this also doesn't seem to do much for me.
 
Hi,
what do you mean with heart problems? You mean something like clogged arteries or also something like skipped beats?
I have skipped beats sometimes which scare me. One time I also had artial flutter. But this was years ago. Also on ritalin I have no problems.
Does this mean if I tolerate medicinal doses of ritalin then dex also won't be much different?

I also ask myself if you take amphetamines and then you feel kinda weird, like for example hyperactive, how do you know if it's something harmless or something
serious like this metabolic syndrome?
I really don't want to freak out when I take it and then check myself all the time for abnormal symptoms or camp in front of an ER....

@ justadude

You think that this person got a cardiac arrest from being too active? It sucks that they didn't mention how it happened and how much this person was taking.
This would have explained a lot.

Yeah, tragic that their death didn't inform you on how to abuse your medication with less worry. I think you're thinking out loud here, trying to convince yourself not to abuse what you want to abuse.
 
Reframe: It's good that you're talking to your doctor. Maybe you should bring all this extra energy to him and insist on getting a solid understanding before taking anything.

At therapeutic doses, downregulation will be limited and gradual. Your body will repair itself similarly. I think you should research hypochondria before amphetamines.
 
Yeah, tragic that their death didn't inform you on how to abuse your medication with less worry. I think you're thinking out loud here, trying to convince yourself not to abuse what you want to abuse.

You stupid? When you take stims for adhd you're not abusing anything.
 
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